Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures

By a vote of 219 to 212, the House of Representatives passed the health care reform bill. While it seems everybody has an opinion about Obamacare, we thought we’d stick just to the facts, and let you decide whether the bill is good or bad for the country. So with that in mind, here are 26 facts and figures about the health care reform bill:

  1. Republicans: No Republicans voted for the bill
  2. Democrats: 34 Democrats voted against the measure
  3. Source: Health care reform: How House members voted – CNN.com

  4. 32 Million: The estimated number of currently uninsured Americans who will receive coverage under the bill
  5. $940 billion: The estimated cost of health care reform over the next 10 years
  6. $143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years
  7. $53 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from social security payroll taxes that eventually will be paid out in the form of retirement benefits.
  8. $70 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from premiums to be collected as part of a new government-run, long-term care program for the elderly. These premiums eventually will be paid out in the form of benefits.
  9. $88,000: New health insurance subsidies would be provided to families of four making up to $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level
  10. Pre-existing conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.
  11. Age 26: Insurers would be required to provide coverage for non-dependent children up to age 26
  12. Doughnut Hole: Under current law, Medicare stops covering drug costs after a plan and beneficiary have spent more than $2,830 on prescription drugs. It starts paying again after an individual’s out-of-pocket expenses exceed $4,550. Called the doughnut hole, it will be closed by 2020.
  13. 40% Tax: A 40 percent tax would be imposed on insurance companies providing “Cadillac” health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax would kick in starting in 2018.
  14. 3.8% Medicare Tax: A 3.8% surcharge would be imposed on investment income for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making over $250,000. This tax increase is estimated to bring in $210 billion between 2013 and 2019.
  15. $695 or 2.5%: The potential amount of a fine if you fail to purchase health care insurance. Starting in 2016, Individuals would be required to purchase coverage or face a fine of up to $695 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. The plan includes a hardship exemption for poorer Americans.
  16. 50 employees: Companies with more than 50 employees would be required to pay a fee of $2,000 per worker if the company does not provide coverage and any of that company’s workers receives federal health care subsidies. The first 30 workers would be subtracted from the payment calculation.
  17. (source: Highlights of health care compromise bill – CNN.com)

  18. Abortion: In a deal with conservative Democrats, President Obama will sign an Executive Order “that will reaffirm its consistency with longstanding restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion.” The order can be rescinded by President Obama or any future president at any time, for any reason.
  19. (sources: Obama Executive Order on Abortion Funding, What health care reform means for your small business – CNN Money, Checking the Math on Health Care – NYTimes.com)

  20. 0.9%: Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) tax rate would be increased by 0.9 percent, to 2.35 percent.
  21. $16 billion: The amount drug manufacturers would pay the US between 2011 and 2019.
  22. $47 billion: Health insurers would pay $47 billion over the same period.
  23. 2.9% excise tax: Medical device manufacturers would pay a 2.9 percent excise tax on the sale of any of their products beginning January 1, 2013.
  24. Tanning Tax: Health care reform establishes a tax of 10 percent on indoor tanning services. This would raise $2.7 billion between 2010 and 2019. As fare as we know, getting a tan outside is still free.
  25. $132 billion: Government payments to Medicare Advantage would be reduced by $132 billion over 10 years.
  26. (source: Health care reform bill 101: Who will pay for reform? / The Christian Science Monitor – CSMonitor.com)

  27. Flexible Spending Accounts: The maximum amount you can set aside pre-tax for health care costs in a flexible spending account will be reduced from $5,000 to $2,500.
  28. (source: Obamacare wins: Now the pain begins)

  29. 46%: The percentage of Americans in favor of health care reform, according to a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll.
  30. 45%: The percentage of Americans against the bill according to the same poll.
  31. 36%: The percentage of Americans who think the bill is a “good idea,” according to the same poll.
  32. (source: American Public Divided On Health Care Reform (POLL))

Now it’s your turn–what’s your opinion about the health care reform bill?

And if you are looking for individual health insurance, check out these options and get a free quote:

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652 Responses to “Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures”

  1. PAGE 2
    And through such behavior, Obama has lowered the standards for self-control and mature restraint to the level of street-fighting gangs, when he should be raising the bar for people to strive toward becoming more considerate, tolerant, self-disciplined, self-sustaining, and self-assured.

    Not a day goes by that he is not attempting to defy our laws, remove our rights, over-ride established procedures, install controversial appointees, enact divisive man fates, and assert a dictatorial form of power.

    � Never has there been a leader of this great land who used such tactics to harmand hurt the people and this country.

    �* Never have we had a President who spoke with a caustic, evil tongue against the citizenry rather than present himself as a soothing, calming and trustworthy force.

    �* Never, in this country, have we experienced how much stress one man can cause a nation of people – on a daily basis!

    Obama has promoted the degeneration of peace, civility, and quality of cooperation between us. He thrives on tearing us down, rather than building us up. He is the Architect of the decline of America, and the epitome of a Demagogue.

    I think Maureen hit it right on.

  2. Can ANYONE explain to me why, IF Obama care is about getting everyone to buy health insurance, this regime is going to tax those of us who have gone to the expense of buying a superior coverage health insurance plan? And while you are at it, explain why “flexible spending plans” or HSAs are having contributions cut in half? If you want to provide for the poor and infirm, knock your socks off, but why does that involve taking away from those of us who actually provide for ourselves and just want to be left the hell alone?

  3. I remember back in the early 70’s, drivin’ my old ’66 Chevy pickup, paying $58 a year for liability insurance. And then, the government made auto insurance mandatory. My premium jumped to $155 a year for the exact same coverage. The government wasn’t giving poor people insurance. Everyone had to come up with insurance or not drive (legally). So why such a big jump in premiums? The same reason that they are increasing now…because, since it’s mandatory, the insurance companies see a way to make more money. The healthcare plan is trying to cap the amount of profits the companies can make, but right now there is a lot of gray area and the insurance companies are doing what they can now to cover their profits for later. I’m not saying this is all a bad thing, because they are going to have to start covering pre-existing conditions now and that will cost them more later. They are just giving themselves a little padding to fall back on when all this is sorted out. How long has the government been fighting to get affordable healthcare for American citizens? Long before Obama became president. Both parties have fought to be the first to get healthcare legislation introduced, and now it’s finally happened. Since it was passed by Democrats, Republicans are wanting it repealed, not that they care about the American families, they just don’t want to be one-up’d by the Democrats. Democrats would be doing the same thing if the Republicans had been the first to get it passed. It’s the American Political way! The thing is…now, we finally have it and it would be a shame to just get rid of it for the sake of a party’s pride. It’s not perfect, but it’s a start. It will have to be put into use before we can see how well or not it is going to work. The parts that don’t work out as planned will need to be ammended, probably many times before we have a good working model. In the years to come, as all the different parts are ironed out, we will see it level off, and maybe someday, our kids or their kids, or their kid’s kids won’t even have to think about this thing called insurance. It will be a part of their daily world. What we need to do, is all get along and try to make it the best that we can for them.
    A good recipe doesn’t just happen the first time. It has to be modified to be the best it can be! 🙂

  4. You will be fined up to 2.5% by 2016 if you do not comply. Unless of course you have a “financial hardship” *wink wink* (meaning poor). Our own premiums have increased and our benefits have lessened. But, guess who will be hurt by this? The lauded “middle class”. The same middle class who voted in droves for this man will now see the reality of there choice.

  5. I have 2 restaurants with 65 full and part time employees, most live paycheck to paycheck; most smoke. I am not their mommy or daddy! Why is it my legally mandated responsibilty to pay for their health care?

    • Why is it your legally mandated right to pay them? They should just be keeping you and your business successful for free while not being able to afford falling ill. Better yet, why don’t you fire them, save money on not needing to benefits and run the place yourself?

  6. i have been effected by having major a illness/hospital stay involving a gastric bleed. it was extreamly expensive, and because i did my homework, and spoke to the hospital staff on what could be done, i was able to apply for and be approved for benefits (due to my low income at that point in my life) following this, I educated myself, obtained employment entry level in my department, and through hard work, advanced to a point where i could afford good health insurance. when the health care bill passed, my insurance rates went up to 175% of what they were before the bill passed. my benefits have slowly went down each year as well.

    reading above, if i continue working where i am working, and continue paying for the better health care (my wife is disabled, and requires over 600$ of medications per month) i will soon enjoy being taxed an additional 40% for my coverage.

    i have been on both sides of the fence in this discussion, and i oppose this bill.

    the notion that i should not benefit from working 60 – 80 hours a week baffles me.

    i saw a bumper sticker that sums up the mentality.. it is “why shouldn’t you have to submit to a drug test to recieve benefits?, I had to submit to a drug test to pay for them”

    • Do you honestly think the money you didn’t have to pay was never collected? The hospital knew it couldn’t collect it from you so they overbilled their other patients’ insurance companies. You were the problem that this bill is trying to solve. If there are less irresponsible people without health insurance in this country getting away with discounted emergency health care, other responsible people with health insurance won’t have to pick up the slack. Are you getting the picture yet? People don’t but health insurance because they can’t afford the rates, they get injured, a lucky hospital gets to treat them at a discount, said hospital then has to make up for their lost income by overcharging the insurance companies, the insurance companies increase their rates to counter the increased costs, and subsequently you have more people unable to afford insurance as the cycle repeats.

  7. I don’t understand why people think that just because someone doesn’t have a job, they don’t want one or aren’t looking for one, or why someone who is down and out, deserves to stay there. Do people really fully understand how bad their own lives would become without a social safety net?

    If there were no unemployment insurance, how many people would turn to crime in order for their family to eat and have a place to live? Unemployment does not pay a lot, but it keeps the bills paid until circumstances are better. Is a world where everyone who gets laid off loses their homes, cars, etc. really a better one? is that really, overall, better for the economy?

    If there were no food stamps, how many children would starve to death? Do those children not deserve a chance at life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness, despite their parents being “lazy”? Should the sins of the parents be visited upon an innocent child?

    Do lower income children not deserve an education funded by the public, in case they do not have a parent to pay for a private education? Or should they be released into the world, illiterate and ignorant, to produce more and more of the same?

    Would YOUR life be better without all of these safeguards? Would the company you work at still be in business if they were removed? If homes were in foreclosure and cars are repossessed and everyone who had a lot less luck had their credit destroyed forever, the banks would have nobody to loan money to, GM would have no one to sell cars to, teachers would have no one to teach. That is the world without safety nets.

    The social safety net has now been expanded. There will be no more people who have to choose between health insurance and food. No more choosing between educating your children or paying for their health. That, my friends, is a good thing. No more “Breaking Bad” type situations.

    Despite not knowing the exact price, the cost, to each taxpayer, will be minimal compared to the benefits you will receive.

  8. Marcus Williams

    I can’t say that I fully support THIS bill, because I haven’t read it all as of yet, and even if I did I still wouldn’t know the ramifications of its enaction. Who here can honestly say that they can predict the future outcome of any action they take? Especially one this complex, with so many ‘free-radicals’ so to say. But what I can say is I support healthcare reform, and anything that is a step towards EVERY American being able to afford healthcare. Of course there will be a few “freeloaders.” Was there ever an endeavor in the world that didn’t have someone trying to get as much out of it as possible with as little work as possible? I really don’t care if you are a ‘freeloader,’ ‘leech,’ or whatever you want to call it; EVERY American, or human for that matter, deserves affordable healthcare, and if it means even a 10% raise in my personal taxes, I don’t care. Though, it could be because I don’t have a family as of yet, so I haven’t fully honed my selfish “me and mines” instincts. But my point with all of this mumbling is that I support anything that is an attempt at a step towards getting EVERY American help whenever they are in need of it.

    “Action is a great restorer and builder of confidence. Inaction is not only the result, but the cause, of fear. Perhaps the action you take will be successful; perhaps different action or adjustments will have to follow. But any action is better than no action at all.” -Norman Vincent Peale-

  9. just me

    I find most that have heath insurance do not want this bill! I have lived life and experienced many hardships. My husband and I work hard and we don’t have insurance. Well I have to say to all the selfish people: If this bill is not in place and you suffer a tragic medical problem GOOD LUCK TO YOU! This is why we need this bill even if you are already insured. Say you get cancer or a heart problem, your insurance can drop you or tell you they won’t pay for treatment. Well if they drop you good luck getting insurance with a pre existing illness. So be selfish get rid of bill and karma will more than likely be knocking on your door someday! I bet you change your mind then. Just like a baby born with a very rare medical problem and the insurance co would not pay(pre existing illness they said because the baby was just born). So I really hope this type of thing doesn’t ever happen to you all, but more than likely something will happen to you or someone you love one day. I am for the bill it may not be perfect but it is a start! I am not a selfesh person.

    • Had no health insurance, had to have emergency surgery for a failed galbladder, the organ was dead and had been for 4 months. The surgery and hospital stay came to 35,000.00. I worked with the hospital who wrote off all but 2,000.00. It will cost me 500.00 a month for my portion of my new employee medical program. It was cheaper to work with the hospital having no insurance than it will cost to have mandated health care.

      My company is also in the process of either laying off about 30 employees to get under the 50 employee limit so they don’t have to provide health insurance, or cutting all the hours below 30 hours per week of all the employees and hiring more part time employees to compensate for the work full time employees do.

      When people start getting their hours cut to below 30 hours a week or laid off because of the health care law all I can say is, how is that hope and change working for you!

  10. Non-hater

    I want to hear from just ONE person who has experienced personal hardship from being uninsured(or a person that you loved/cared about) that believes some sort of affordable national healthcare isn’t necessary. I do not believe anyone who speaks so selfishly on here could even have MET a human being that has been bankrupted, worried-beyond-belief for a child or elderly family member, etc. Sometimes good, honest, hardworking people get into hard times. There are always abusers of ANY system- including wealthy corporate CEOs(of our precious capitalism)! This country is too wealthy to not care for children, the sick, the elderly. Does a person really have to suffer themselves before wanting to be kind-hearted to others?! Many of these responses seem cruel. Didn’t we all learn to share/give as children?!

  11. i find it humorous that chillywillyx, wants me to feel bad for someone that only makes minimum wage, and can’t get insurance. Why should i feel bad for someone who wants to stay entry level, and not get educated? If you want more out of life you need to work for it, nothing is free. You want to make more get a damn skill/trade, the fact that one can push a broom does not entitle them to a higher earning.
    It is not the governments job to wipe your ass, it is yours. If your mad that someone makes more than you, then you need to change yourself, not them.

  12. Joe,
    I’m a single mother of two sons and possess 2 degrees. I worked for Toyota corporate until i was laid off with 150 other people last year. I live in southern California where the cost of living is beyond exorbant … I’ve been out of work for over a year. I’ve been on several interviews where now I’m over qualified and cannot even attain customer service jobs. I was declined for any assistance medi cal and food stamps because my unemployment of $1628 a month is too much … Really!! A 2 bedroom apartment goes for 1200 and up here!!! And that’s living meager! I’ve paid into welfare for over 16 years… I’m 36 years old and I’ve always worked! All I want to do is work, buy has anyone taken a look at our economy!?? I’m homeless with my children right now and there is no help for people like me… We fall through the cracks… I agree that those able to work should work… I also feel that unless you’ve been privy to life in the ghetto you’ve no idea about the visions cycle! You cannot end poor or welfare when there is no opportunity for growth in those places. The government sets up and allows those on welfare to live exactly how they live! I have a 17 year old son with asthma and no care to get his medication! So what do you suggest I do? I’m listening?!! I’ve begun up apply for part time jobs just to make ends meet and nothing! This country is going down hill fast! There are no jobs for the working class and the jobs that are available don’t make enough to sustain your family! Yet i still owe $56 k in student loans for a freaking education I’m not able to use!!! What’s your solution! I’m all ears!!! Because I’ll tell you… Most of you selfish pricks wouldn’t have a clue what to do if you found yourself homeless with your family!!! And this is not my fault! I’m a victim of a declining economy!!!

    • I struggled for 15 years starting 3 failed businesses. My friends and family called me a loser. I have slept in cemeteries, park benches and airports.
      I never gave up and never listened to people to get food stamps.
      Today, I have a thriving business and home.
      I am 42 and should retire in 3 years.
      You are not a victim. You are just in a station in life that can be changed.
      That is the American Dream.

  13. Joe,
    I’m a single mother of two sons and possess 2 degrees. I worked for Toyota corporate until i was laid off with 150 other people last year. I live in southern California where the cost of living is beyond exorbant … I’ve been out of work for over a year. I’ve been on several interviews where now I’m over qualified and cannot even attain customer service jobs. I was declined for any assistance medi cal and food stamps because my unemployment of $1628 a month is too much … Really!! A 2 bedroom apartment goes for 1200 and up here!!! And that’s living meager! I’ve paid into welfare for over 16 years… I’m 36 years old and I’ve always worked! All I want to do is work, buy has anyone taken a look at our economy!?? I’m homeless with my children right now and there is no help for people like me… We fall through the cracks… I agree that those able to work should work… I also feel that unless you’ve been privy to life in the ghetto you’ve no idea about the visions cycle! You cannot end poor or welfare when there is no opportunity for growth in those places. The government sets up and allows those on welfare to live exactly how they live! I have a 17 year old son with asthma and no care to get his medication! So what do you suggest I do? I’m listening?!! I’ve begun up apply for part time jobs just to make ends meet and nothing! This country is going down hill fast! There are no jobs for the working class and the jobs that are available don’t make enough to sustain your family! Yet i still owe $56 k in student loans for a freaking education I’m not able to use!!! What’s your solution! I’m all ears!!! Because I’ll tell you… Most of you selfish pricks wouldn’t have a clue what to do if you found yourself homeless with your family!!! And this is not my fault! I’m a victim of a declining economy!!!

    • well maybe you should borrow more money and go back to school again and get more degrees that you cant use. or maybe stop making bad descisions, like living somewhere you can no longer afford, or moving somewhere where you can work?

  14. Ted Zeiter

    Unfortunately there is a big difference between so called facts especially when it comes to the numbers/cost. Originally it was estimated to cost 980 billion or so. Two years later the real costs are coming in and now it has been revised to 1.7 Trillion. So when it comes to cost and estimated saving it’s really bogus.

  15. I can’t believe everyone’s plan ignorance of the issues. I work in the healthcare industry. SELFPAY is the CHEAPEST way to pay for your care. The smart person, who has money to pay their bills, should choose NOT to have healthcare. You pay approx 25% of the hospital’s fees as a selfpay patient. If your bill is 4000, you are billed 1,000. Duuhhh….a 600 dollar mri will cost about $150. why are so many people afraid of no healthcare. It’s not that people don’t have healthcare, it’s that they DON’t pay their healthcare bill. Let me tell you about those who DO have money and just don’t pay it. People ALREADY have HUGH deductible’s they don’t pay. $2,500. They get medicaid to pay that. You are all so delusional and let me tell you, totally ININFORMED about the cost and reasons why healthcare costs so much.

    FIrst, get real. Medical care is expensive. The doctor has a HUGH responsibility….YOUR life. YOUR care. It costs 100’s of thousands of dollars to get your degree….remember, we expect nothing but the BEST in healthcare. That costs.

    The hospital you go to MUST be TOP NOTCH. That costs you. TOP NOTCH for everyday ailments. Pneumonia, gastritis, gallstones, appendectomies. All common, everyday illness that don’t require all this HIGH tech expense. Most people don’t have expensive illness requiring all these high level expenses. But YOU want them, YOU expect them.

    Second, your insurance company, your hospital, your doctor all have overhead. At least 50% of costs go to overhead. Are YOU going to open a hospital and run it? Are YOU going to run an insurance company and keep the insurance affordable?

    Why hasn’t anyone, not one person mentioned the exuberant costs for the HMO plan process. Doctors at the hospital, at the insurance company. Nurses at the hospitals, doctors offices and insurance companies ALL reviewing your care. Just to say yes you were sick enough for that surgery. Huh.

    I saw one DUMB comment that said, if everyone paid more for their care maybe they would think twice about getting that care. WHO got an MRI, had surgery that DIDN’T need it? I don’t know anyone. It hurts, what is wrong. These are the tools. Surgery is NEVER done for torn ligaments that isn’t needed. How ridiculous that people get procedures that don’t need them just because. So I have to pay more under that insane assumption? It is minimal the amount of people getting care that don’t need it. Thus, the insurance premiums are calculated to include all those factors.

    Now, YOU HAVE to get health insurance or the GOVERNMENT will tax you/fine you. WHERE is that tax or fine going? THINK about it. For WHAT?

    NOW, I get LESS allowed in my FSA. I have a family of SIX. 2500 gets eaten up QUICKLY. BULLSHIT. I HAVE insurance. I have been paying my way for years. NOW this bs story of uninsured is COSTING me MORE?????

    You people are just plain, so stupid. THIS is not the answer to what is NOT the problem. That is what is wrong with america. You are dumb and stupid that you really don’t know what the problem is to begin with and take some idiots answer to solve it. NOW we are ALL paying for your stupidity. And this is stupidity.

    This was NOT the timing to implement a program like this. When there is a recession this NOT the time to make a change like this.

    I am glad some folks did NOT vote for this plan. No one should have. What were they thinking?

    • Marcus Williams

      Oh shoot! That’s crazy! I didn’t know that! So you mean that time I had a seizure, got into a car accident, and paid $11,000 for an ambulance ride to the hospital, some pain reliever drugs and six stitches was the cheapest plan afterall! Wow, all of this time I’ve been mad over that pushing me into debt before I was 19 for nothing! Because if I did have help it would have cost me $44,000. Thank you Janice for taking that weight off of my shoulders. 🙂

    • “You people are just plain, so stupid.”
      Here is a tip, Janice. Never call other people stupid. It is rude and hurtful. It makes you look bad. This is especially true when you are unable to construct an eighth grade-level sentence. Also, intelligent people know the difference between “HUGH” and “HUGE.”
      Feel free to ignore this. I wrote it so that a fifth grader can read it. I wish you the best, Janice.
      (Many parts of your post are factually incorrect. I am not sure you could comprehend the explanation.)

  16. If socialized medicine worked so great then why do Canadians come to America for.their healthcare? Wake up ppl. Taxes are going to go up and who’s affected? People like me who only spend 40-60 a week on groceries for 5 people in my household because despite having a good looking net… Take out the money I pay for MY FAMILY TO HAVE INSURANCE and bam! Living paycheck to paycheck. The whole thing is a bad idea! America, I love you but your full of people who do not understand what this means in the longterm…

    • agreed Rachel.One of many reasons I am against the Healthcare bill “Obamacare”…I wish people would think for themselves instead of believing media viewpoint.I have read bill. ..I do not agree with it.

  17. PROGRESS

    TIMM WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET JOBS FROM. YOU SAID YOU WORK 3 JOBS, WELL HOW THE HELL DO YOU HAVE TIME FORMTHE FAMILY YOU ARE SUPPORTING. YOU ARE GREEDY AND HEALTHY, WHILE OTHER ARE BROKE UNEMPLOYED OR SICK. WAKE UP MANN.

  18. How about 2 Thes. 3:10; “that if any would not work, neither should he eat.. ”
    Quoting Bible verses without the context is ridiculous! Those verses extol PERSONAL giving (up to you), not corporate giving (our giovernment). If you want to give your money to healthy people who do not want to work–go for it! I personally believe people who are healthy and able should work, or pay the consequences.

  19. My story: I do not have healthcare. I would like to. I grew up in a family where we never had insurance and were very poor. I worked 3 jobs to put myself through college. Now I have a state job working 40 hours a week. The state requires me to take 2 weeks unpaid vacation every year so that they can call me an OPS employee – that means they don’t have to provide healthcare. Because I have a preexisting condition and I am a female of “prime child bearing age” (I’m 29), getting private insurance would be at the cost of 35% of my monthly income. I am not lazy or uneducated. I have never been on welfare or lived off the system. I supported myself. I needed treatment for an injury I sustained and like someone previously indicated, I went to my local health department. They were not equipt to treat me and also told me that even if they were, I make too much money (32K per year). So if I were jobless and uneducated, they could help, but since I am not, there is nothing they can do for me. I would move or get another job but I need to stay in the town I am in to help take care of my mother who is in poor health. And there are not many options here.

    Those of you who think that the only people who want/need this to pass are people who don’t work hard or try, please take a look at my story and tell me, where do I turn to. I was raised poor but when we were young, we shared what little we had with those around us who were less fortunate. I gave away one of the few toys I got a Christmas to the girl next door who had nothing. We never had a second helping at dinner because that could go to an elderly lady who lived down the block who had less than we did. I give to charities what little I can although I have little myself. Many Americans have become so selfish that they would watch others suffer, even if those people are trying their best to make something of themselves, while they continue to consume and collect that which they don’t even need. This is called greed. I have done work in 3rd world countries where people have nothing and still share with their neighbors, communities, and country what they can spare so that others can survive.

    I have heard many speak here about what belongs to them and how they do not want to have to support others who are less fortunate. How what they work for is theirs alone and they don’t want to share. I pray you do not proclaim to be Christians. If you do, please see below:

    Deuteronomy 15:11
    11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

    Proverbs 14:31
    Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

    Luke 12:33-34
    Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Whatever faith you are, these are the selfless acts that make us humans, not animals.

  20. My story: I do not have healthcare. I would like to. I grew up in a family where we never had insurance and were very poor. I worked 3 jobs to put myself through college. Now I have a state job working 40 hours a week. The state requires me to take 2 weeks unpaid vacation every year so that they can call me an OPS employee – that means they don’t have to provide healthcare. Because I have a preexisting condition and I am a female of “prime child bearing age” (I’m 29), getting private insurance would be at the cost of 35% of my monthly income. I am not lazy or uneducated. I have never been on welfare or lived off the system. I supported myself. I needed treatment for an injury I sustained and like someone previously indicated, I went to my local health department. They were not equipt to treat me and also told me that even if they were, I make too much money (32K per year). So if I were jobless and uneducated, they could help, but since I am not, there is nothing they can do for me. I would move or get another job but I need to stay in the town I am in to help take care of my mother who is in poor health. And there are not many options here.

    Those of you who think that the only people who want/need this to pass are people who don’t work hard or try, please take a look at my story and tell me, where do I turn to. I was raised poor but when we were young, we shared what little we had with those around us who were less fortunate. I gave away one of the few toys I got a Christmas to the girl next door who had nothing. We never had a second helping at dinner because that could go to an elderly lady who lived down the block who had less than we did. I give to charities what little I can although I have little myself. Many Americans have become so selfish that they would watch others suffer, even if those people are trying their best to make something of themselves, while they continue to consume and collect that which they don’t even need. This is called greed. I have done work in 3rd world countries where people have nothing and still share with their neighbors, communities, and country what they can spare so that others can survive.

    I have heard many speak here about what belongs to them and how they do not want to have to support others who are less fortunate. How what they work for is theirs alone and they don’t want to share. I pray you do not proclaim to be Christians. If you do, please see below:

    Deuteronomy 15:11
    11 For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

    Proverbs 14:31
    Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

    Luke 12:33-34
    Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Whatever faith you are, these are the selfless acts that make us humans, not animals.

    • susan carlson

      Tina, I agree with you completely. I don’t care if I do pay more in taxes. I want all of my fellow Americans to have good health insurance, period. There should never be a family that has to choose between food and rent over health care. When good health care is a fact of every life, we can put so much more effort into other, more important things.

  21. I think it’s fraud. Government controlled, look at where the government has gotten us now. Don’t need it, don’t break this country. I love my country and don’t want to live anywhere other than the US of America!!!

  22. R.H. Wooldridge

    Ladies and Gentlemen…Please help me understand one aspect of this bill that no one is talking about…..and that is the ability of a medical provider to backbill the patient for any amounts not covered under the bill..in addition to that the ability for an individual to be sued into medical bankruptcy for failure to pay the balance not covered by Obamacare…

    For example…yo recieve services from a hospital for $25,000….Under the reimbursement schedule, the physician / hospital receive $10,000 as the usual and customary fee in the area….Under the provisions of the bill, the hospital can and will come after the patient for the $15,000 balance, known as backbilling….If the fee is not paid, the provider will then sue the patient for the balance.

  23. A Healthcare Plan does not need insurance period. A national savings account backed by government securities would be much better. Anything that would help make it money would beat out any insurance Casino. That money pooled would also create some monstrous “buying power” that would offset costs, and if used right, could actually make a profit for the pool. The research and development part of the plan could be used to constantly seek out cost effective ways to improve services and and iron out negative statistical probabilities.

    This Plan would take some work of course, but would be much better than letting the Insurance Casinos profit off of a simple computer algorithm that my Ipod could handle.

  24. Tommy thevenot

    I do not think that the government should be responsible for providing “insurance coverage” for all it’s citizens. Now, access to care is different from ” insurance coverage” and every city or town I have ever lived in ALWAYS offered access to care to the poor and indigent, or others that could not afford coverage. University hospitals have always offered free care in Louisiana. The need for insurance is over-blown ( and I am an insurance agent ) . If my family needs health care, I’m going to find a way to pay for it , whether I have insurance or not. People will put their whole summer vacation on their credit card but then whine that they can’t get proper health care because they dont have insurance. Get real!

  25. As a future healthcare professional I cannot support this bill. I do agree that something needs to be done with our current healthcare system. Health care providers are being asked to do more for less by insurance companies but the premiums you all pay are just as high if not higher! So please tell me who is to blame here? I would say the middle man! As for taxing those whoake >200,000 to provide for those who need health insurance I think it’s terrible. I have come from a lower middle class family and busted my butt to earn the degree and the income I will make! The american dream is not that you are garunteed to have a better life but the ability to work for a better life! If u don’t work you don’t move up this isn’t socialism people!

    • And what of those that are working hard but are still not supplied a basic need of health care? Are there really this many people so out of touch with reality to think that only individuals that are unemployed don’t have health insurance? I have a bachelor’s degree and worked hard to earn it. I work full time as a preschool teacher and bust my butt every day to work with children for $9/hour, no health insurance, no vacation time and no paid holidays. Yes, I chose this line of work I understand that. It’s a passion I love. And why should those willing to take less of a pay to educate the future of our country be penalized for their inability to afford health coverage. Maybe it’s not my “right” but I have most certainly EARNED it. Don’t forget that the individuals you harshly judge for “not making a better life” may be educating YOUR children.

      • Dee,
        I believe that people should not be penalized for their decisions. That goes for both sides. People should not be penalized for striving to make a great income to support themselves and their families. People should also not be penalized for choosing to be a teacher with a terrible salary. We all have choices to make in our lives, and all those choices have consequences, whether good or bad. Choosing to go into a field with less then desirable benefits was your choice. You could “easily” go into more advanced teaching, say college/university professor. That way you could earn more money to support yourself. But it’s not a penality when you know the terrible circumstances you are getting yourself into. You said you understood that, but it seems like you’re not understanding that you took the risk and made the sacrifice of an opportunity to give yourself the best health benefits in order to educate the youth- a noble sacrifice indeed. To force people who chose a different, possibly better paying field to pay for the choices you made is not right, just, or fair. And forcing companies that can’t afford to pay someone is just as bad. if one does not like that, then he or she can make a totally new a revolutionary healthcare system that does not infringe on the rights and abilities of the people or the companies. In essence, a new insurance company that can afford to cover those other companies won’t. That is the American dream, to create a better situtation without relying on the government.

  26. I am for the Healthcare Reform bill because of the good that can come out of it by helping all Americans receive the healthcare coverage that they can afford but also the healthcare they deserve. If all Americans who are working are required by law to purchase insurance, the insurance companies will receive a great deal more money than they currently have, which will in turn help the insurance companies keep costs down for premiums because there is simply more money there. Young workers who are at lower risk will have cheaper insurance, since they are younger and less likely to need health care, so that will be a lot of extra money flowing into the insurance companies to help pay premiums for older individuals. At the same time, all preventive care will be free which will give people the freedom to go and have pre-screening exams for cancer and other life threatening diseases since we all know that these are the major costs to our health care system. Some of the biggest benefits are to come in 2014 when insurance companies will not be able to cancel your insurance because you have reached your cap of benefits. If a person receives cancer treatments under the current health care insurance provisions, the insurance company can drop your insurance once their max is met. In many cases that may be as much as $500,000 life time. For someone who has had treatments before, I know first hand how fast that cap is reached. Once that cap is reached, your insurance can drop you and no other company will pick you up because you now have a pre-existing condition. (Fortunately that is no longer the case), but your insurance company only has to pay for the max of your policy which forces you to pay the remainder of the bill. It isn’t fair to have to sell your home or lose everything you have just because you got sick. In 2014 insurance companies will be required to pay the full amount of the bill no matter what the cap is on your insurance policy. How will insurance companies be able to afford this? Remember all those younger individuals who are required to buy insurance? Insurance companies have been increasing their profits exponentially over the years and now they will finally have to pay out a little bit in stead of raking in the profits so much. After all didn’t we work just as hard for the money we put into our insurance policies as the insurance broker put in to taking it? Also, the insurance company has the clout to negotiate costs with the hospitals and doctor’s which will keep the healthcare costs down.

    • The heath insurance companies are NEVER going to lower their rates. They are in the business to make money. Since heath care reform has been talked about in Congress, my insurance has gone up 6 times. This bill is going to bankrupt the country. 1 in 6 hospitals will go out of business. To make heath care insurance affordable they should have tried to allow the companies go out of state. Further more, why not make doctors and hospital post their fees? This way there would be competition. I am single parent, my job does not offer health insurance and instead of buying a cell phone or tv, I purchased health insurance. Do without something to provide for your family! Read the fine print, health care reform is taking money out of Social Security. It would have been cheaper to just buy everyone that needed it a plan.

      • Read Something

        MaryC, that’s why there’s the 80/20 rule outlined by “obamacare”. Only 20% of incoming money can go to insurance companies for overhead costs and the other 80% must go to paying medical bills of those the company insures. If they over-charge (i.e. don’t pay the full 80% and they cannot keep more than the 20% and the leftover money is refunded to the people being insured).

        Probably should familiarize oneself with a piece of legislation before condemning it…

    • everything the government touchess inflates and blows out of control including postal service that cant make a profit, medicare they cant make work efficiently. why do you think medicare on a much larger scale is going to be any different only now they will have a direct mandatory deduction from my check. i feel for anyone who needs insurance and cant afford it, but care cannot be dennied as it is and there are charitable companies that will assist if you take the time to apply or get the service and welch on the debt either way we end up haveing to pay it with higher rates.

      imagine us being canada or europe were you die on a waiting list for cancer treatment. or you tear somthing and your insurance doesnt comer specialized physicians to fix the problem what will everyone fuss about then because medicare doenst you have to pay out of pocket

  27. I am for the Healthcare Reform bill because I love my fellow humans and I love my country and I want to see my fellow countrymen & women receive care that they need to stay healthy & lead productive lives. I choose not to focus on those receiving “handouts” and not working for their fair share. Do I ignore those people? No. If I see direct evidence of abuse or crime or unethical behavior, I will always do my duty and report it, but I believe that people focus too much on something that will ALWAYS be a problem. It is a problem of life that will always exist. The best way to combat it is to do our best as citizens to stay ethical, work hard, and teach our children the same. Fight injustice when you see it, and expose those who create it. (Or better yet, show them an example of what they are capable of). I am more concerned with capitalist corporations that take advantage of our system and perpetuate greed that makes the immature, lazy-ass mother with 10 diferent babydaddys who sucks the system for all it’s worth look like an ant on a mountain. 1 greedy capitalist banker is worth 10,000 lazy welfare suckers when it comes to our economy. And something you’ll never hear from the top 1%… I do believe there is such a thing as earning too much, even if you DID work your ass off for it. I EXPECT you to give back to those who were not smart enough, wise enough, hardworking enough, or simply didn’t have the opportunity to make it where you did. You are privileged beyond measure to be where you are. Be thankful for it & give back. Work hard, live humbly, love others and enjoy the things in life that cost nothing. Those are the most important.

    • Do you realize the tax increase that will come about because of Obamacare?
      It is a huge scandal. Do the research. The money has to come from somewhere to pay for Obamacare and it’s going to come from every WORKING American’s paycheck. Why should hardworking, not lazy, smart, Americans have to pay for those who choose not to go get a job? It is not everyone else’s responsibility.

      • Anthrofreak

        There are plenty WORKING Americans with no health insurance. I wish my world was as simple and black and white as yours (not really, I love the ability to think critically and independently). Of course they have to raise taxes, genius. Health insurance companies aren’t going to grow a conscience and spend more money on patient care than advertising. In social democracies, people pay taxes if they want services and mandate change that benefits the common good.

        • chillywillyx

          I’m not one to usually reply to threads, but Anthrofreak says “Of course they have to raise taxes, genius”. I would like to know it is that taxes Have to be raised to pay for all the things that people expect the gov’t to give us in an economy that currently has a shrinking middle class, where more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage (if they haven’t already been outsourced). With a smaller middle class and larger poor class, where is this money supposed to come from out of the taxes from individuals earning $7.25-$10/hr?

        • chillywillyx

          I’m not one to usually reply to threads, but Anthrofreak says “Of course they have to raise taxes, genius”. I would like to know it is that taxes Have to be raised to pay for all the things that people expect the gov’t to give us in an economy that currently has a shrinking middle class, where more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage (if they haven’t already been outsourced). With a smaller middle class and larger poor class, where is this money supposed to come from out of the taxes from individuals earning $7.25-$10/hr?

        • chillywillyx

          I’m not one to usually reply to threads, but Anthrofreak says “Of course they have to raise taxes, genius”. I would like to know it is that taxes Have to be raised to pay for all the things that people expect the gov’t to give us in an economy that currently has a shrinking middle class, where more and more jobs are becoming minimum wage (if they haven’t already been outsourced). With a smaller middle class and larger poor class, where is this money supposed to come from out of the taxes from individuals earning $7.25-$10/hr?

  28. Larry Watson

    Health Care Discount plan (Not Insurance) that will take care of 90% of the reasons people go to the ER Help cover the expense of a hi deducible Insurance Plan

    • I agree with Larry. Do you know what Hospital Advocacy is and does your insurances provider include Advocacy services?

      Hospital Advocacy is when you are hospitalized and the anticipated charges exceed $2,500.00 an advocate will be assigned to you:

      • Your advocate will negotiate the best discount on the hospital bill and work out a payment plan on the new balance.
      • Historically the average discounts negotiated have been greater than 80% off the hospital total charge.
      • Depending on your financial situations and if you are eligible your advocate will apply for financial assistance to pay the hospital balance off on your behalf.
      • Throughout the process your advocate will keep you updated on the status of your case.
      • There is only a three business day waiting period from the activation of your plan to utilize this program.

      Monthly plan cost is $49.95 per a household (up to 20 people)

    • I agree with Larry. Do you know what Hospital Advocacy is and does your insurances provider include Advocacy services?

      Hospital Advocacy is when you are hospitalized and the anticipated charges exceed $2,500.00 an advocate will be assigned to you:

      • Your advocate will negotiate the best discount on the hospital bill and work out a payment plan on the new balance.
      • Historically the average discounts negotiated have been greater than 80% off the hospital total charge.
      • Depending on your financial situations and if you are eligible your advocate will apply for financial assistance to pay the hospital balance off on your behalf.
      • Throughout the process your advocate will keep you updated on the status of your case.
      • There is only a three business day waiting period from the activation of your plan to utilize this program.

      Monthly plan cost is $49.95 per a household (up to 20 people)

  29. timmy wilburn

    what people do not is that all of those people that get ins. will still have to pay a bill.where will people get money for that bill? so with that hospitals and doctors will still have unpaid bills but alot more of them. why is it fair to make others pay for people that choose not to work and pay their own way thru life.i can see paying for the elderly,our veterans,people with a physical problem that keeps them from working ANY job in america. if i can work 3 jobs 7 days a week to provide food and health and dental care for my family,then why does anyone think they are better than i am and not work and expect me to pay for their free ride in life? please tell me why i should hand over the money I WORKED FOR to someone else that does not work. i would like to know that. it really does not matter what anyone thinks because it is still MY MONEY I WORKED FOR AND SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO KEEP UP ANOTHER MAN’S FAMILY AND MINE ALSO.a real mom and dad would get up off their lazy butts and work for their kids.

    • That’s great. Good for you for working 3 jobs to pay for your family. Just a little viewpoint from the other side. One of my best friend’s has a job. Full time. Sometimes her boss makes her work 10-14 hour days 5 days a week. Does she get paid overtime for this? No. Does her employer provide health insurance? No. So she makes enough to provide for her four children (she’s divorced, mind you) and now she has a torn ACL which she is STILL going to work on because 1. she can’t afford to go to the doctor and 2. she needs to keep working. Do you think that she doesn’t DESERVE to have health insurance coverage?

        • Mitt Ryan

          What Nate is trying to say is that she is shit out of luck. The truth is that she deserves the benefits of government that her taxes pay for. I have great health insurance from the company I work for, but also understand that there are those that work and pay taxes, but has an employer that doesn’t provide health insurance. Nate doesn’t understand that when he was first enrolled in public school, had a family member call the fire dept or police, or have his grandparents receive their social security check, those “services” he and his family received were just just as important as someone who just wants to stay healthy/alive. Karma will eventually come back around to the selfish. It’s the law of the universe. Nate will need something vital to his health one day, and someone will tell him he doesn’t deserve it.

          • Back in 2005 my husband lost his job and our family health insurance. I underwent emergency surgery and spent 5 days in the hospital for a cost of over 45K. I finally paid off the debt in 2010 but it nearly bankrupted us. In 2006 I found work but got hurt on the job and couldn’t work anymore. COBRA was charging us over $1800 monthly to continue our coverage. We could no longer afford it. I know exactly how it feels to live in fear of a devastating illness or injury with no coverage to protect us. I am sure there are some people who take advantage of the system but the vast majority are hard working people who just can’t afford private insurance. The Healthcare Act will help all Americans by cutting costs and making people healthier.
            Everyone but the extremely poor will be required to pay for this healthcare. Those who already have insurance are not required to be on Obamacare. Additionally, those who can afford healthcare but choose not to get it will have to pay a nominal tax. The only way for this healthcare to work is to ensure that everyone pays their fare share. No one is immune from illness or accidents.

      • *Amy* Tell yur friend to go to the health department…its free! And if she isnt gettin paid overtime then her employer can get in big trouble…unless shes gettin paid under the table she should have proof with pay stubbs!

        • Joe Wiser

          TJ – RE your response to Amy, you really need to know more details on the job and classifiction of the empoyee before you answer the question. Some jobs are salaried and exempt from overtime. Generally if you are an hourly worker then you should be getting overtime for work in excess of 40 hours a week.

          • It sounds to me like your friend needs to start building a resume and using the experience she has gathered from her current employment look for a job that has health insurance. One of two things might happen. She might find a job that has insurance (and possibly better pay) or when she gives them her 2 weeks notice if she is a good employee they will offer her better benefits. I know it is hard to find jobs but there is nothing that says she has to stay there. I’ve gone through a hard time of unemployment with no health insurance, fought through a large amount of debt, and plan on continuing down my path of success. has it been easy, HELL NO, but I have done it and I’m a better person for it. If I had a family to support if no other options were out there then yes I would take a job with no health insurance. If they were working me to the bone with no benefits the first thing I would do is either quit/resign (tell them I would stay if I had benefits for my family) or from the day I started I would still be online every day looking for something that better suits my requirements.

        • Always working

          Unless she is salaried. Most people don’t understand or want to admit that this is the basis of the problem with the ecomony. Employers don’t want to pay anything anymore. They don’t want to hire full time employees so they don’t have to offer health insurance. Both of my jobs offer insurance, if you are a full time employee. One of my jobs has only 5 full time employees that are not management. The management staff is salary and work anywhere from 50 to 70 hours weekly. Both employers “offer” health insurance but over 80% of their employees don’t qualify and they never pay overtime because they rely on their salaried employees to work almost two weeks worth of time in one. Needless to say that company is like a revolving door with management as well all hourly employess and probably pays more out in training the constantly new staff than they would pay to make me full time, offer everyone insurance and occassionally pay out some overtime. But what do I know, I just work there.

        • Always working

          Unless she is salaried. Most people don’t understand or want to admit that this is the basis of the problem with the ecomony. Employers don’t want to pay anything anymore. They don’t want to hire full time employees so they don’t have to offer health insurance. Both of my jobs offer insurance, if you are a full time employee. One of my jobs has only 5 full time employees that are not management. The management staff is salary and work anywhere from 50 to 70 hours weekly. Both employers “offer” health insurance but over 80% of their employees don’t qualify and they never pay overtime because they rely on their salaried employees to work almost two weeks worth of time in one. Needless to say that company is like a revolving door with management as well all hourly employess and probably pays more out in training the constantly new staff than they would pay to make me full time, offer everyone insurance and occassionally pay out some overtime. But what do I know, I just work there.

      • Amy, you answered you’re own question. He said “those whom sit at home and don’t work but are CAPABLE of contributing”. You’re friend obviously DOES work and seems to me to be a PRODUCTIVE member of society. We in opposition to Obamacare don’t like “handouts”. What you describethat would be provided for your single mother friend is NOT a handout. She is doing all that she can and deserves OUR help. The sick,impoverished,and vastly underpaid hardworking Americans absolutely DO deserve a “hand up”. In short… if you can, and do…. we will. Sit on ur capable tail…. do without.

    • I sign on to see if I could get some info on the Health care Bill. Since you seemed to be informed can you tell me if your a Forture 500 company lays of all of its employees. Can you take your health care ? Most of us had worked for the company 20 to 35 years. ??

  30. I signed on trying to find information in regards the the Healthcare Reform Bill as on the surface what I have heard it is a good thing….people who do not have insurance must get insurance or must pay a “tax”. I assumed, and we all know what that can do, that the paying of health care costs for services provided with be done with the premiums paid or taxes collected. However, in thinking about it….I am not sure that will work….because who regulates what a healthcare provider can charge? I think generally hospital fees a regulated by State agencies, and if that is true, then the $5.00 bandaid we pay for was determined by a State agency that deemed it appropriate. I am not sure physicians fees are regulated….you either pay the physician or he/she may opt not to treat you. So, as many have to expressed many times in this string…..”Free” is not necessarily “Free”, that someone has to pay—-however there are few exceptions where healthcare providers will provide their services at no charge as there way of “giving back to the community”, but who knows maybe they can write of their time as “good will” on there taxes. Anyhow since “free” is not “free” who is paying now? Will the healthcare bill make those not paying now, but getting care or more than likely sometime in their life will get health care….belly up? Granted……so will never get health care…but come on, the reality is the vast, vast vast majority is folks will some time in their life. One could argue that paying Social Security should be optional….but there was a time in this country when there was not Social Security….what happened then? Someone had to take care of the old. May it was family, churches etc. But I would venture to say most folks back then had pride and did not want a handout….so “we” had to come up with a way to allow people to maintain the self-pride and respect yet insure they would be taken care of…..because you can not count on folks to save for their retirement years.. Further, it is my understanding that it was never the intend of the Government that Social Security would be the sole retirement income for folks.

    To tell the truth I was really taken a back on how hostile folks got and simply to say how rude. There is something really, really wrong in this country…..it is a lot bigger than healthcare.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if:

    1. Everyone who truly loves American would be supportive of all Americans – and those who do not love American would simply leave.

    2. If people were not so greedy. Have you ever asked yourself “how much is enough”? There are some that will say — there is never enough.
    But the reality is some are not getting the basics of life. Some might say – – I got mine, so you can get yours the same way. I did by old fashion hard work. Many have done that, over coming many difficult obstacles. Excellent, but all are not equal. Oh sure, our Constitution says we are all created equal….and at the time the document was written that was true…..but not so any more with invitro-fertilization, etc.; we can no longer way we are all created equal as a result of conception, the joining of sperm and egg, as cloning is all ready being done with animals….so our success is incumbent on many things…those inherited and factors, influences and affects of our environment. I truly believe that is no true American who is not willing to give someone a “hand-up” , which is totally different than a handout.

    3. We could instill self-pride, confidence, positive self-esteem, responsibility, strong work ethics, respect and compassion toward others and good character to the extend that only those that truly are not able to take care of themselves only remained. I truly believe that most of us can do something productive, and instead of just sitting at home drawing public assistance,and should give back in some way, there are plenty of organization who need volunteers…..but again that comes back to one having self-pride, a since of personal responsibility, good character, etc. and you and I can not fix that. Now for those who remain that are truly unable to provide and care for themselves due to physical or mental illness or disability, has our society evolved to the point we would simply let them die???

    4. We could accept and embrace all our differences regardless of race, religion, ethnic origin, gender, nation origin, sexual orientation, etc. Granted we may not all agree on certain points, and must all ways remember just because something is legal, that it is fair; that something is legal, that it is morally correct.

    So in closing I still do not know if healthcare reform is good or bad….is it even a start.

    • Steve,
      The costs most healthcare providers charge are negotiated between the insurance company (or Medicare) and the healthcare provider. If the patient does not have healthcare insurance, then the healthcare provider charges “whatever the traffic will bear”) That is why it behooves everyone to have healthcare insurance if they can afford it.
      The problem is that for an individual to buy healthcare insurance, the cost is more than they can afford. That is why Obamacare provides for the setting up of healthcare insurance “exchanges” where individuals and small businesses can join in as a group and have the same clout to negotiate with insurance companies for lower rates like the large companies that provide “group insurance” for their employees/

    • Alana Deschannel

      Wouldn’t it be wonderful if people understood that criticizing what’s wrong with the country you’re a citizen of and suggesting, or working on plans to make it better, actually DOES mean you love your country? And wouldn’t it be equally as wonderful if these same people realized that ACCEPTING inequality and buying into political lies actually proves that you DON’T love your country at all?

  31. I fully support the United States joining other countries who provide healthcare for their citizens – some are good, some are bad. The super-rich oppose ObamaCare because they will pay a larger % of tax to support healthcare for all. People who can afford to pay for their own private insurance oppose it because they apparently think that everyone else is in the same position they are. The majority of them represent the people who think that one can just “get a &^%$^& job”. The Bill is flawed, and we need a lot of time to fix the parts that don’t make sense….but folks, thanks to Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama, EVERYONE has healthcare.

    • That is what you think, Dori….. you just wait until you find out the real cost of healthcare. Just because one might recieve a card to get “healthcare” does not mean it will be good healthcare. Many doctors are thinking about quitting because of Obamacare. With 30-40 million new users , we already will have a shortage of doctors. When doctors start leaving, it will be worse. I am not fond of doctors, myself, but Obamacare, is not the “Affordable Health Care Act”…. costs have already gone up and are going up much more because of this bill. There are 21 new taxes, and Obama promised no taxes on anyone making under $250,000….WRONG…….he also promised to reduce the deficit by half…..WRONG…….(increased by TRILLIONS) even the CBO says Obamacare will INCREASE the deficit more, Obama said the bill would decrease the deficit/WRONG….. we definitely need healthcare reform, but this 2700 page bill, that they did not even read before they voted on it, and has literally thousands of new regulations that will be placed on businesses, needs thousands of new IRS agents to implement….not to mention the “dealth panesl” that we all laughed at when we heard about from what’s her name from Alaska….there IS a board of 13 or 15 people that will decide if you get a certain surgery or not….heaven help you if you are over 65! There is so much more about this bill that is not right it really needs to be dealt with. So, for me , I am for repeal and start over. I truly believe that if the general public really new what this bill is going to do, they would not be for it. I say that with all sincerity, and hope that for the sake of our country, people really look into it and not just be idealogues. Thank you…for letting me vent……I am upset and rambling.

  32. Stand Strong America

    Here are some truths how Obama will destroy this country.

    In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

    The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

    The irony is that the Congress doesn’t have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

    This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide…

    If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn’t work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

    So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law It doesn’t stop there though.

    The 9th Amendment that provides: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

    The 10th Amendment states: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

    I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights.

    Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to “be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution.” If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

    For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the US Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

    By Michael Connelly, godfatherpolitics.com.

  33. Mr. Bumpy

    If Obamacare is “all that great” why isn’t EVERYONE on board with it. I am amused that a significant tax will be imposed on Insurance companies and Rx manufacturers to support this bill. Even Americans with IQ’s at 2 above plant life know that these companies pass along THEIR increases to the customers. We get stuck with higher prices anyway. “AFFORDABLE health care” is misleading to the informed. The rest don’t care, they just want the “gimme’s”.

  34. Margie

    I am 50 years old and have been a self employed hairdresser for 25 years. I have over the years been trying to maintain having insurance. I am at the point that I simply cannot afford it. I dropped my policy because on top of the high premiums..the deductible was so high I could not afford to use the policy. I have worked my butt off my whole life. I am presently single and raising my 12 year old granddaughter. I am a VERY responsible person. So those on here that think this health care law is for freeloaders…you are so damned wrong. There are MANY self employed people in this country that are in my position. I suggest you heartless people read “Deadly Spin”, by Wendell Potter, the ex-top PR executive for Cigna. He was in the insurance industry for 20 years and his conscience began to get the best of him when he realized how the industry he worked for was the REAL death panels. The book will explain what has been going on in the health industry for the last 20 years. It is will open your eyes on why this is such a moral issue!

  35. Krysia

    Obamacare does nearly nothing to address the real problems with healthcare costs. True healthcare reform would make more sense than just having mandatory insurance.
    Also, the biggest problem with the government running the countries health insurance is that they decide what procedures are necessary and what is best for an individual rather than the persons doctor. With the government paying for your healthcare (through taxpayers) is dangerous because the next step is to decide what you can eat, drink, etc. imposing bans on certain food or drinks, similar to the extra large soda ban in NYC, can be put in place in the name of healthcare. I want less of Government in my business not more. I am not responsible for my neighbor so why should I pay their healthcare cost.
    With the way government cannot get a handle on waste and fraud already in government programs such as welfare or food stamps leads me to believe it will be no different with Obamacare. Besides, do we really want the same people running our healthcare that gave us the DMV, the Post Office, the Chevy Volt, and Frannie and Freddie? I think not!!

    • If Krysia would read the law he/she would discover that there is a lot more in it than mandatory insurance. And yes, the law DOES address one of the biggest problems with healthcare costs.
      Last year, one insurance company paid MORE in profits to its top executives and to its stockholders, than it paid in claims to individuals for reimbursement of necessary medical expenses. Those profits are from excessive insurance premiums exacted from groups and individuals. Obamacare requires insurance companies to spend our premium dollars primarily on healthcare rather than going into the pockets of insurance company executives as bonuses.
      Another way you get it wrong Krysia, is that it is insurance company officials that deny treatment recommended by doctors. The reason they do that is because insurance company managers are motivated by the bonuses that they receive that are based on the profit that the company makes at the end of the year. And reimbursements paid to patients detract from that profit.
      I speak from experience. I have had one HMO deny payment to the doctor that performed retinal surgery on my eyes, but have NEVER been denied treatment by the government during the 18 years that I have had Medicare.

  36. Sally

    I am an independent Life and Health agent in Illinois. It’s just me I have no
    Employees. How will this bill effect me. Will it increase my big any? I have health insurance thru my husband company. Thank you

    • First of all, Obamacare is no longer a bill; once it passed Congress and was signed by the President, it became a law.
      Under this law, if your husband’s company chooses to offer the same coverage as before to your husband and to you, you will not be affected by the new law.
      If, on the other hand, your husband’s company chooses to cancel your existing coverage, then how you will be affected depends upon your unique circumstance. At any rate, before this bill passed, you would have been on your own as far as getting replacement coverage. Under the provisions of the new law, you could receive assistance in obtaining affordable health insurance if your husband’s company cancels your existing coverage.

      Does this answer your question?

  37. It is obvious, from reading the comments that, (a) most people have not read the provisions of the Obamacare act, or (b) they do not understand what they have read. I started paying for my medical insurance when I was 23 years old and healthy. I was 45 years old when I first had to be admitted to an Emergency Room. I am now 83 and have Medicare (which is GREAT). The benefits I currently receive exceed my current payments. But then, I paid for insurance for 22 years without receiving ANY benefits. That’s the way insurance works.

    Those persons who will have access to affordable insurance (through the Obamacare insurance exchanges), but refuse to buy the insurance are irresponsible freeloaders. Someday they will have an accident or get sick, and then they will expect others to pay for the treatment they receive.

  38. Understand that Obamacare mandates the purchase of a product (insurance) because one is a US citizen. Never in history has the US government said you have to buy something just because you are a citizen. The product could just as easy be chocolate brownies or a new car every three years.

    Let’s use the new car analogy. So now, because you are a US citizen, you have to buy a brand new car every three years. You can’t buy a used car. You can choose to walk, but you still have to buy a new car every 3 years. If you do not there is a financial penalty levied by the IRS. One can extol the various virtues of everyone having a new car, but can you see how this law might infringe on your civil liberty?

    By passing Obamacare, the government sets the legal president that it can now mandate purchases of (fill in any commodity) by every citizen. You have to buy it, wether you want it or not, and wether you will use it or not. While they haven’t given themselves the power to make you eat 3 fruits and 3 vegatables every day, they can now easily legislate that you have to buy them, under penalty of law.

  39. Faith

    Did you catch the double talk in my comment? ” Obamacare takes a stab at ending LIVES GRACIOUSLY”. The other part is: You will be made to believe that you will have a choice on how to end your life. The Truth: You will not be given an option if you COST TOO MUCH TO CARE FOR!

    Read Page 468 fo the Bill and let’s educate everyone! We have been deceived!

  40. Faith

    It’s interesting to see how easily we are all swayed away from the truth behind Obamacare. Remeber that the main issue with health insurance is COST. Obamacare takes a stab at ending LIVES GRACIOUSLY by allowing the individual to CHOOSE HOW TO END IT. YES, the GOVERNMENT is going to make that choice for YOU! NOT GOD, or FATE, or DESTINY. But rather someone called “Secretary”. DO YOU WANT SOMEONE TO DECIDE WHEN YOU SHOULD DIE?

    OBAMACARE: Judicial system states it’s legal as a tax.
    EVERYONE: Focused on other issues except- PAGE 468 READ IT FOR YOURSELF! Educate yourself on what you are talking about!

  41. I’ve sold medical insurance for 35 years(retired now)there is no better plan then Medicare.Let’s have Medicare for all,with premiums that would be affordable because all would be in the pool.Those under 65 would have fewer claims thus building up the fund for the retired people.Administration costs would be much lower then the i insurance industry costs(Medicare 2-3 percent,insurers 30-35 percent.Insurance companies are going to make a fortune with this new act.A little history-social security was going to put the insurance industry out of business(they thrived)Medicare was going to bankrupt doctors and hospitals The for profit hospitals and drug companies are making more money then ever.ss and Medicare was fought tooth and nail by the republicans.Would they give up ss and Medicare ?

  42. I’ve read a lot of the comments and I find them all to be quite interesting. I work in an inner city ER. I’ve never worked in one where the majority of the clients have insurance outside of Medicaid. With that being said it is very true that some ppl on Medicaid do have cell phones and ipods and are well fed. I essentially pay (thru taxes) to take care of them emergency or not. It is very frustrating. I don’t helping those in need but I do mind helping the lazy. And unfortunately America caters to the lazy. The gov’t doesn’t manage the Medicaid system well; so even though I feel everyone should have the opportunity to have insurance I am very concerned about the checks and balances of the program.

  43. DDLBWT

    There are 8000 illegal immigrants coming into this country every day. Most stay under the radar until they have a child ie: “anchor baby”. Now we have a new medicaid participant along with the rest of the family because they now have a US citizen for a child and cannot be sent back from whence they came. They continue to have children and continue to use the American citizens tax dollars to fund their emergency visits for runny noses, ear infections, sort throats and bug bites. The emergency departments are nothing but clinics. And, no…. the emergency departments will not see less people with obamacare because the doctors offices are all too full and not taking new patients. Dying in the emergency department waiting room because you have a real emergency will no longer be rare and national news worthy, it will be commonplace. This is a fact, and I will quantify it with 20 years of being an emergency department employee. I see it every day! Stop illegal immigration, anchor babies and we will be well on our way to solving the healthcare crisis. Oh and one more thing, with all my years of experience how can I get free healthcare and drive a Lexus, carry a gucci bag and use an iphone with my beautifully manicured nails have a stylish hair cut and still be able come to the ED with my 6 children that all have a runny nose.

  44. It is illegal to mandate insurance for the privelege of living. Remember the whole life, liberty and persuit of happiness thing. If you don’t have insurance, or cash, the hospital or doc should not have to admit you. You might die. that’s a choice. It’s a harsh world. Before you go all civil rights BS, I don’t have insurance. (Yes, I work 40+ hours a week) I pay cash or do without. When I had recent hernia surgery it cost about $5000 bucks locally (Idaho). It would have cost well over $15,000 if I had insurance, because I wouldn’t have to price shop. Insurance drives the price up.

    Understand, on a basic level, I don’t want insurance. I don’t want to pay for someone elses problems. I NO LONGER HAVE THAT RIGHT.

    Obamacare infringes on my right to “life and liberty”, by mandating insurance simply because I am alive. IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL and in opposition to my basic human rights.

    PS I do believe in Food Stamps…..but for that, you gotta be really skinny!

    • CombatVetForThePeople

      Ok, I understand where you are coming from Seth. What I meant was, for less fortunate people, or those who cannot get insurance, it gives them an opportunity to be covered. I do however understand that if the insurance is not wanted, you will be fined for not having it. I do not purchase car insurance and would much rather take a fine rather than pay a premium that is through the roof for something that I will probably never use.

  45. CombatVetForThePeople

    I think this bill is great as far as giving everyone health insurance. There are many people who are poor and can not afford such things, a huge help to them. As far as people complaining about paying more taxes to help someone out, a fellow American, you are a disgrace to this wonderful nation. I have seen 3rd world countries without any health care and watched as the sick died painfully and helpless. So for you to talk about taxes rising means you could care less about this country and only care about greed for yourself. I fought two years in a war for ungrateful people like yourself. I was thinking of others, so maybe it is time for you people to return the favor. IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!

    • I don’t think it “gives’ insurance away,or provides a publicly funded healthcare system, like Canada. Instead it mandates you buying insurance privately at whatever the going rate is.

    • True – it is NOT giving health insur to everyone – it is REQUIRING all citizens to PURCHASE Health Insur. What this is trying to do is get health insur coverage for everyone. The problem is – those in the govt are CLUELESS as to the REASON ppl DONT have health insur – it is cuz they CANT afford it. The govt realizes this (somewhat) and says we will help make it affordable (going by the slide rule – which if anyone has had to deal w/that, the middle/lower mid class ppl fall thru the cracks here), by giving you UP TO (slide rule/dependg on income) a 30% tax deductn (on income tax). WOW, what a savings. 15,000 health insur, 30 % (4,500 less) makes it affordable? Still have to find that 10 grand (IN ADDITION, you wll have to PAY for ALL your Doc/ER Visits, up to the deductible amt of anywhere from 2,500 – 6,000).
      For me, that is NOT affordable. Many of the ppl that are for this ObamaCare think; it is free, that it (govt) is giving us insur (oh it is – their version of what THEY, their plan will cover), or cheap. It is not – this is only the visible expenses. Want to take a look at what it is, how it works – look at Romney Care in Massach. how it is costing the state of Mass a fortune. Think it will be better for the entire country? pfft. Rework Medicare/Medicaid – get rid of the abusers, let those that gamble (such as myself – no insur) pay for their services. I do – as so far, i have not exceeded the 6,000 deductible charge. My biggest health bill (including my husb) so far has been 5,775.
      WHatever, we no longer have freedoms or choices (pretty limited anyway)

  46. EVERYONE MUST READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUE CONSEQUENCES OF OBMAMACARE.
    When insurance lobbyists pushed for mandatory car insurance. The insurance companies swore up and down that they would reduce rates. We all know that rates went up as a direct result of mandatory car insurance.

    Now health Insurance companies are saying that because of government forced insurance they will have to raise health insurance rates by at least 15 percent across the board to cover all the additional individuals needing the mandatory insurance.

    The health care industry is now saying that it does not have the resources to handle millions of new patients, and as a result will have to significantly increase rates to compensate.

    Whenever a subsidy is put in place, as with the obamacare subsidy, rates always increase, offsetting the subsidies intended purpose. Therefore the subsidy’s purposed purpose may become moot.

    If you don’t think this will affect you because you already have insurance think again.

    Employers who now provide insurance for their employees are considering dropping the coverage simply because rates are going to increase significantly. All employers have to do to gracefully bow out of their insurance obligation is lean on the government forced insurance plans as an escape clause, this will in turn cause insurance rate to rise again.

    The result of all of this is that medical insurance for everyone will increase dramatically. The first increase will be a profiteering move. The second will be to offset rapidly escalating medical costs and the third will be an offset due to employers dropping insurance coverage.

    But wait it gets better, The IRS will now be knee deep in your private medical information as they are retooling everything, adding 4500 additional IRS agents to their organization to manage the new healthcare act. This means that the IRS will have dramatically greater reach into nearly every aspect of your life, and even more power to lien and seize.

    Now consider this, your typical homeless person does not have a permanent address. If you don’t have a permanent address you can’t get insurance. You can’t even get the subsidy to cover the insurance; I rather doubt that the vast majority of the homeless can afford to pay the penalty. Therefore they would be considered criminals punishable under the law.

    Then there are the millions of Americans who lost everything in the housing crunch and as a result are making interest payments on past due tax with the IRS. Remember bankruptcy does not release you from tax obligations!

    Since the Obama care subsidy’s are paid back to the qualified insured through the IRS, those who still owe taxes will not receive their subsidy’s, the IRS will simply keep it only paying out any remaining amount (if any) to the insured less the tax obligation. So what this means is that the average guy with a family of four who is in good health but in trouble with the IRS will have to shell out $12.000.00 to $18.000.00 a year out of pocket, but receive no compensation from the IRS.

    Since almost no one who earns less than $40.000.00 a year can afford to spend that much of their income on health insurance, we should expect yet another group of individuals to default on their insurance obligation and become criminals under the law. They could skip getting insurance coverage opting instead to pay a $2000.00+ a year fine; therefore the individual does not get any insurance coverage but still has to pay. Herein is revealed the real intent of this plan. A series of taxes hidden beneath an unsustainable benefit scheme.

    When all is said and done obamacare will collapse into an immense tangled bureaucratic mess. Insurance and medical rates will become unmanageable and as a consequence the economy will fold in on itself, as escalating penalties and insurance defaults rollover into law suits and lost incomes which would normally be spent on goods and services.

    • actually, all that he/Dave said is true. Along w/those that have no insur (cuz their company is too small – ridding the country of the small biz – cuz who in their right mind would want to work for a biz that doesnt give health benefits) becuz their company doesnt offer it.
      The reason why they DONT have insur, is cuz it is NOT affordable. I dont have all the luxuries; cell phone, (the internet access is thru biz), vacations, excess clothes, etc. Lets say, i live a modestly, a simple life – due to the 40 grand (gross) my husb & i live off. Buying insur (family plan) would be 18 grand, which leaves me appx 18 grand to live off of (groceries, doctors, gas, car paymts, rent, etc). HOW many of you Pro-ObamaCare ppl can live off of 18 grand? The middle class will SHRINK due to ObamaCare – less products purchased, etc… and so will the economy sink. BTW, i PAY for my doc visits, tests, ER when i use those services.

      IF YOUR Company that is providing YOU (helping you pay or fully paying) for health insur dumps that benefit – would you be willing to reduce YOUR standard of living by having to fork out the cost of health insur on your own? Yep, there goes the cable, the cell phone, that new car, etc

      • John Albert

        Show me the facts. All you and Dave have made are claims without a single bit of data to back upyour argument. I have no health insurance provided by my company – lost it about 3 years ago. The premiums for individual health insurance for me are prohibitive as I have heart disease. With the pre-existing insurance I live. Without it I die. Its that simple. I am willing to reduce my standard of living, already have. Are you willing to invest some time in actually GETTING THE FACTS STRAIGHT? Or would you rather just get some quick information regardless of how accurate it is? Your answer is clear.

  47. mark hunsaker

    i need to see a income chart for this health care law to understand the cost to individual, also what does it mean for health ins. premiums. will it be cheaper than the 7200.00 dollars a year i pay now?

    • It is 698.00 or 2.5% of your income (the “tax”) if you dont buy insurance (depending on your income – that 700 is NOT for anyone making more than 24,000. BUT, what if you make 30,000 (Gross)? Buying insur will suck out half your income – THAT is why ppl dont buy insur – they gamble, hope, pray they dont get sick.

      The reason ppl DONT have insurance is becuz they CANT afford it. Obama has been selling this “affordable” health care. IT is NOT affordable (it would be for rich politicians that have NO CLUE as to what living Middle Class IS). For an individual, not a family, go to e-insurance – anywhere from 10 grand – 18,000 (depends on coverage) THEN look at the DEDUCTIBLE – the insur wont even kick in until AFTER you have paid anywhere from 2,500 to 6,000 in deductible. IF you have this regular insur (no pre-exist, no drink/smoke) you will pay the 15 grand on average to the insur company and PAY any and ALL doc bills up to your deductible. So, if you have 1,500 worth of tests/dr visit you are paying now 16,500. WHO can afford that when you are making 24,000 a yr? Oh, thats right ObamaCare will give you up to (UP TO) 30% off of the 15 grand you pay in premium.
      As for pre-existing conditions -an insur company cant refuse to cover you – but you will HAVE to pay the high price the insur company demands for it.
      Our freedom to make a free choice in this country is being chipped away. A law, a mandate, a tax to keep you in line with what the govt wants, not what you want. Everyth has a price – there is no free anymore. and yeah, if you dont like it – move to another ctry. The PPL that live in this Country came here due to the FREEDOM it ONCE offered. Now, the govt tells you what to do, how to do it, when, and how much it will cost you.

  48. Just give all of us what congress and senate have for coverage and what they pay for it . I bet we would all be happy , As long as we put up with the rich making our laws .. we will never move forward .
    Look at there pay and the pay raises they give themselves , look at there retirement plans , the many things that are free to them . so do they really care about you ?????? not a chance !!!!

    • Tammie

      I concur with your 1st and 2nd statement but would rather you change the third sentence to be “As long as we put up with politicians making our laws…” The rich aren’t the problems…it’s the greedy politicians.

  49. Romney says he will repeal the ACA but he knows he has to have 3 out of 3 = 1. the presidency, 2. the senate, 3. the house. Right now the repubs have 1 out of 3 – the house. The only chance for repeal is if the majority of voters become so dissatisfied with Pres. Obama that they vote repubs into the senate and Romney into the presidency. Recently Pres Obama has been doing stupid things (gay marriage, eric holder, dream act, executive orders that flaunt his power) and yet his poll numbers are not going down and they don’t show the majority are dissatisfied. It is going to be very difficult for repubs to get the senate and presidency while only 50% plus or minus of registered voters pay any tax. The non tax payers will always vote democrat, African Americans, most Latio’s and it looks like most of the women voters are in the Pres. Obama camp. Pres Obama is turning out to be the Teflon Pres.

    • John Albert

      “while only 50% plus or minus of registered voters pay any tax” Really? Where can I get a tax exempt status like that? When I buy goods or services, pay a phone bill, use electricity, “own” a home etc. I pay a buttload of taxes….regardless of how much I pay in INCOME taxes..

      Very few people here actually have their facts straight. If they actually looked for the facts (which takes time and effort) instead of spewing rehashed, twisted and easily discredited insurance industry propaganda this forum would probably have a different tone.

      A tip: Always remember and never forget never use always and never.

      BTW I am No Obama or Romney fan.

  50. Just for the uninformed, I’am a medical administrator assistant. We as of the announcement already started to look at laying off many personnel from many different department,s because of the very bill you really don’t understand,and can’t possibly read. our hospital attorney’s don’t even understand the bill, “(fact)” What I do know for sure is the Uninsured will be the demise of the care you do get now.!
    “(Fact)” You will see a different type of health care in terms of a three month waiting period to see a physician. we already made preparations for that, When it happens. Too many people not enough doctor’s.(fact) you will never see a doctor, most likely you will see a physicians assistant that will be pushed out of the newly formed goverment funded private schools???
    In the bill we do know you will only be approved for surgery if it is absolutely
    needed, Each hospital will have a board which has been starting to form and made up of two Goverment officials and one private sector physician?? I as a medical Professional and a Hard Working American
    Can only say Fact is what we should be discussing,not feelings you really dont know what’s coming??????? (Good Luck)

    • John Albert

      Fact – you have provided no facts!

      “Each hospital will have a board which has been starting to form and made up of two Goverment officials and one private sector physician” – BULLSHIT – propaganda – show me your “facts”.

  51. Just for the uninformed, I’am a medical administrator assistant. We as of the announcement already started to look at laying off many personnel from many different department,s because of the very bill you really don’t understand,and can’t possibly read. our hospital attorney’s don’t even understand the bill, “(fact)” What I do know for sure is the Uninsured will be the demise of the care you do get now.!
    “(Fact)” You will see a different type of health care in terms of a three month waiting period to see a physician. we already made preparations for that, When it happens. Too many people not enough doctor’s.(fact) you will never see a doctor, most likely you will see a physicians assistant that will be pushed out of the newly formed goverment funded private schools???
    In the bill we do know you will only be approved for surgery if it is absolutely
    needed each hospital will have a board which has been starting to form and made up of two Goverment officials and one private sector physician?? I as a medical Professional and a Hard Working American
    Can only say Fact is what we should be discussing,not feelings you really dont know what’s coming??????? (Good Luck)

  52. Alice

    It’s costing Americans and it’s costing our country. Yes, there are crumbs to be had, but the bill doesn’t fit the meal. I am on the lower end of middle-class (an unemployed writer) so I can’t afford health insurance. With everything else pounding in our ears every day, it’s enough to break a person. Obama is all glam. I have no love for Romney, but Obama scares me. His entire presidency feels like one long scam.

  53. samat47

    I am retired/disabled Sr. Citizen. I have a fixed income – I do not receive handouts – I EARNED the benefits I receive and yet I need to purchase more health insurance to cover what Medicare does not cover! I am neither for nor against Obama Care but I am SICK of complaints! Families do not take care of families as they used to in the ‘old days’ – something has to be done to take care of ‘us’. There are a lot of good points in this mandate – ie: no pre-existing conditions can be turned away – and others. So get off the soap-box and realize YOU too will be ‘there’ one day!

  54. Taylor

    My husband and I are self employed and having been buying our insurance for years. $1,500 a month. That’s a hard nut to crack, do I like this bill? No. Everyone needs to be taxed evenly, the way it stands is very discrimintory. Living in California doesn’t mean your rich. Most of work very hard to stay here. Our largest battle is what the illeglal immigrants cost us, not only in health care, but fraud, education, crime. They will be major benefactors once again witht his bill. It doesn’t address them, only the “real” Americans. How about we ofload the illegals, maybe more people would then open their pocketbooks to the food pantries.

  55. Taylor

    My husband and I are self employed and having been buying our insurance for years. $1,500 a month. That’s a hard nut to crack, do I like this bill? No. Everyone needs to be taxed evenly, the way it stands is very discrimintory. Living in California doesn’t mean your rich. Most of work very hard to stay here. Our largest battle is what the illeglal immigrants cost us, not only in health care, but fraud, education, crime. They will be major benefactors once again witht his bill. It doesn’t address them, only the “real” Americans. How about we ofload the illegals, maybe nmore people would then open their pocketbooks to the food pantries.

    • Don.Moving around on planet earth is a right.Governing the Populace is a privilage abused by government.Why do you think they say it is a privilage? So they can charge you for it,and then take it away if you don’t kiss their ass!!!Sorry about spelling!!Sunshines in,You Have Awoken!!!!

  56. FOR EVERYONE COMPLAINING –

    Go live deep in the woods if you want absolute freedom with no one forcing your hand on anything whatsoever. I would be more than happy to find you a proper secluded place.

    Nitpick all you want – for all practical purposes, we are forced into buying car insurance. Yeah, I don’t need a car – but at the same time you also are free to LEAVE THE COUNTRY if you don’t want to buy insurance.

    We are fined if we don’t put our children into an education system. We have SS. I could go on and on in ways we are “forced” to do certain things to be part of our society. Many of which people bitched and moaned about, and now – no one makes a peep because we now understand they are necessary for a modern society.

    No one is absolutely forcing you to do anything. Like I said, move to the woods and hide out – or leave the country.

      • Tammie

        @ KP Let’s get real…you can’t just go live in the woods. Somebody’s got to pay that property tax to the government. So unless you are going to print your own money in the woods, I’d suggest you come up with a new plan.

    • KP,You can’t just go live in the woods the government wont let you.There are zoning laws that can keep you from living on your own land.You can’t just leave the country you need a passport and the government could deny you one.Other countries aren’t as stupid as ours is and won’t just let you move there like the 40 million illegals here.We are forced to do alot of things.Even if you won’t admit it.It’s just how things are done so the government can take our money.Sunshines in,You Have Awoken!!!!!

  57. Anyone who believes OBAMACARE is good, should stop drinking the cool aid!!
    Anyone who believes the BUNK they are selling in this article “Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures” should also get off the cool aid!! This article sound like the Democratic Talking Points!!! (and I am a registered Democrat currently)
    It is simple math; even with a public school education (government mismanaged/almost bankrupt) you should be able to figure it out. No way can you launder money through the federal and state governments and cover (pay for) 32 million more people, with no co pays and covering all preexisting conditions can you get the COST and /or QUALITY of health care under control. It is about time you all wake up and smell the coffee!! Take some personal responsibility!!! If it is so good for US why are we waiting until 2014 to get it started??? Good luck keeping your plan; my high deductible plan (my choice for my family) is no longer an option!!
    Now I have to get into the Gov’t one size fit all HC plan!!

  58. janet oneal

    I cannot believe anyone thinks the US Government can improve anything…..the Post Office, Medicare, our military, Social Security…all examples of how broken our government is. Oh and include our educational system which is now government controlled! So now let’s get them to take over healthcare and insurance. If it were not so sad I’d be laughing! Wake up people – you send your children to school as early as age 4…you let the government feed them breakfast, lunch and snacks….you let the government mandate what they can and cannot be taught…you let the governmnet take God out of their lives,,,,you let the government set the standards by which they must learn…and what they can learn and you let the government keep them after school…..and now you’re going to let the government control their healthcare and yours. America is broke…hope China is willing to lend the money when the healthcare system goes broke! Insurance rates increase because of greed and for no other reason. Obama nor God has been able to control that! Sorry but America has gone just ‘stupid’!

  59. Darien

    All you guys calling it a tax are dumb. It’s not a new tax. This bill actually will reduce costs and reduce those running to the ER for preventative care.

    I can tell that all the people whining on here are getting their information from talk radio, fox news, or friends. That’s the only explanation for some of these dumb comments.

    This country will spend billions on unnecessary wars but throws a fit when money is spent on things that actually benefit everyone. Anyone who mutters “how will someone be able to afford this if they can’t afford health insurance” obviously has never had to pay for health insurance.

    whats really funny is that many of the provisions in it were changes republicans made to it. Like the mandate and the penalty if you don’t have insurance. That was a republican idea. Democrats in large part wanted single payer.

    Btw for all you dopes, if your employer won’t cover your premiums and you don’t have insurance that’s when you pay the penalty. So STFU with all your stupid comments. This bill helps to control costs.

    In ten years nobody would have been able to afford health insurance at the rate prices were increasing. You should all be saying thank you.

  60. Amazing that most of you are ready to give your soul to the government. Obamacare is the progressive dream of complete control of one major aspect of your life….and then it will be on to another. Once the progressives control the middle class, we are finished as a Republic. Obama could care 2 hoots about you and your healthcare. This is just a mechanism to turn our Republic into a socialist, statist run state. Does anyone even care that this will bankrupt us and throw us over the fiscal cliff? There are other ways to meet the problems with our healthcare system than a complete overhaul, but the Democrats refused to even consider the GOP ideas. BTW, what do you think 10,000 baby boomers who are reaching 65 every day for the next 19 years will do to Medicare? It really is a sad day for our country when each of you want to give away your freedom and liberty. This is what my father ought for Tarawa and Iwo Jima.? Americans will rue the day they gave up their freedom and signed on for Obamacare.

    • Angela

      Well said CNS74. My father fought in WWII in Europe for the very freedoms we enjoy. Having a discussion with my 10-year-old grandson re the Healthcare Bill the other day, I said that the “gravy train” will eventually come to the end of the track. He looked at me and said, “I don’t like gravy.” HAH My husband had a conversation with a 30 something at work right after the decision was broadcast and HE was ecstatic. My husband asked him if he realized this was socialized medicine which would bankrupt this country and he replied that he LOVED Europe and hoped we would be just like it someday. I’m sick to my stomach because they don’t get it.

  61. I believe that most of the people who are for ObamaCare got all their information from the liberal owned media which is totally biased in that direction. If you really want the truth about it, open your eyes and do your own investigating. When “they” say that 32 million Americans who do not receive medical coverage now, will be able to have medical coverage – they are not including in that figure the millions of illegals whose coverage we will be paying for. The figures are all distorted in order to make it more palletable. With all these so called freebies the incentive to work is disappearing and if you look at the big picture – it will all end when they have everyone where they want them – eating out of their hand!

  62. I would like to know a person like myself thats insured and does not make over 250,000 would be affected with this bill which most of us on here fall in the same catagory. My opinion on this is that if you can afford healthcare buy it instead of a $45,000 vehicle and put the burden on the people that do, thats why healthcare is so high when people get healthcare and not pay the bill.

  63. Heather

    FDR’s New Deal forced farmers to sell or destroy crops they were growing for self consumption to stimulate the economy and encourage buying and trading. (it’s obviously been reformed since) That and Social Security are some ideas that were radical at the time but in the long run have helped our nation. Some ideas need to undergo some reforming (like the new deal) and some serve their purpose and then extinguish (as SS is running out) but they have been for the overall better of the country. It’s difficult to see the whole plan at the beginning stage. I think the idea of Obamacare is right– heightening competition among health insurance companies to lower costs and spreading care to all– but the implementation of the plan isn’t quite there. I hope voting for the right people will get it to where it needs to be…

  64. If you haven’t read and fully comprehended the bill, then you shouldn’t even speak your opinion or take a side. Too many people with opinions and zero facts on this issue. This is the real problem with our country and the state of our economy. Too many people believing the propaganda that lands in their email or posted on FB everyday, paid for by people with their agenda guiding the truth. Its a shame.

    • Obamacare stops construction at 45 physician owned hospitals nationwide
      (1/1)

      larsonstdoc: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/obamacare_stops_construction_a.html

      More BS from Barrycare. THE GOVERNMENT WANTS NO COMPETITION AND IT WANTS CONSTRUCTION WORKERS TO STARVE!!! As I have said many times, Obamacare has little to do with healthcare—IT IS ABOUT CONTROL.

      WITHOUT COMPETITION, COSTS ALWAYS GO UP!!!

      What a superlative idea! Let’s throw thousands of construction workers out of work and make it harder to access quality medical care at the same time.

      Man, those Democrats are 6 times brilliant, eh? The Weekly Standard:

      Under the headline, “Construction Stops at Physician Hospitals,” Politico reports today that “Physician Hospitals of America says that construction had to stop at 45 hospitals nationwide or they would not be able to bill Medicare for treatments.” Stopping construction at doctor-owned hospitals might not seem like the best way to boost the economy or to promote greater access and choice in health care, but that exactly what Obamacare is doing.

      Kenneth Artz of the Heartland Institute explains, “Section 6001 of the health care law effectively bans new physician-owned hospitals (POHs) from starting up, and it keeps existing ones from expanding.” Politico adds, “Friday [New Year’s Eve] marked the last day physician-owned hospitals could get Medicare certification covering their new or expanded hospitals, one of the latest provisions of the reform law to go into effect.”

      This little-noticed but particularly egregious aspect of Obamacare is, by all accounts, a concession to the powerful American Hospital Association (AHA), a supporter of Obamacare, which prefers to have its member hospitals operate without competition from hospitals owned by doctors.

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    • SHAWN< If I dont read the bill, I am certain my taxes will go up anyway. Its a shame for government to require anyone to pay. Reading the bill does not keep Americans from getting screwed. Reading the bill will not stop employers from canceling company provided insurance to their employees when the fine is way lower than insurance premiums they currently pay. Finally those who live below poverty line will get their Obamacare paid for by the state in which they live, this burden will fall on tax payers. If you support a tax increase please provide me your address so i can send you a tax increase bill and you can write the dam check for me. If oyu are not already over taxed like the majority of the middle and lower class start donating your income fool.

  65. big Jim

    To be quite honest. I hope this law is burned while Obama’s put to the stake. This Will NOT save the economy but it will fuck over any business that tries to expand. Most politicians have no sense of practicality so they usually fist the middle class while bending them over a table. Republicans at least have the balls to say, ” don’t care. Gonna do it anyway” I prefer that tho. Also If you get offended by any of this please eat a bullet. Unlike Obama I believe in freedom like my freedom of choice to NOT have health care. Do we need some reform on healthcare? Sure. But this won’t work. We’re pretty much letting Osama I- mean–

    • big Jim

      -Obama… has been pretty much pissing on the Constitution anyway. What’s one more violation on our rights? What people forget is that politicians don’t give a Shit about you. Just what makes them look good enough to get them re-elected.

    • you are an idiot! Your choice to not have health care is part of the problem. If you get hit with an illness or injury that costs you more than you can afford to pay back,I’m certain you will just file for bankruptcy and further burden the health care system and our national deficit. I am a business owner, how does this plan effect my ability to “expand” as you say? Its my opinion that if my employees all had affordable health care plans they would be able to stay healthier by having regular checkups and become more aware and proactive in their health choices leading to more productivity. I’m not 100% for this bill, but it does address some important issues. Put down your guns and pick up a book, seems like you could benefit from some education.

      • Huh? Having insurance (when I could afford it) didn’t do jack to make me magically live as a healthier person. If anything, living without it has taught me many great habits. Living without the monthly cost of insurance is a risk I don’t mind taking. Maybe healthcare is simply too expensive if someone has to go bankrupt to afford an unforeseen accident/illness… while others are going darn near bankrupt to afford the insurance in the first place. Big pharma is the problem here, as is agribusiness. Anyone talking about that?

      • Shawn I must say that if you can’t see how this would affect the ability of a business owner to expand then I really doubt that you are one. I am one and as such I can see a huge setback to those businesses that do not receive one of over a thousand exemptions that Obama has already handed out. For example if McDonald’s is exempt and yet all the other restaurants have to pay .The simple fact that their prices have to increase so much to cover health care for their employees . Will most certainly affect t their ability to expand , if in fact they are able to even stay in business.

      • I find it funny that in defending a bill that one of the members of congress read before passing it you suggest that those who oppose it don’t read enough.

        • I meant none of the members of congress read it. And below you suggest that that if we haven’t read it we shouldn’t comment. How much more should we not pass a bill we haven’t read.

  66. im tired of gov taxing me at every corner and stupid laws that make life harder. this healthcare law is another way for the gov to control one other part of our lifes they are control freaks they think they know whats best for us i guesse we are just to stupid to take care of our selfs.

  67. Jeannine C

    Are you kidding! You own a car because you want to .Know one saids you have to own a car. Therefore if you want to own a car yes of course you must have insurance to protect others you may hit. The government is not telling you you must own a car. Do you see the difference ? We need to stop the goverment waste not tax the people who work hard and pay taxes with more taxes. A sad day ,we just became a socialist nation.

  68. Mike Muskalla

    Questions:
    1) What will the “penalty” tax $$ for those who decline to procure insurance be applied to?
    2) Insurance companies can no longer deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions. Is there any provision in Obamacare that prevents insurers from charging enormous premiums and copays for those with pre-existing conditions?
    3) What happens to the estimated 26 million Americans (Washington Post June 28, 2012) who will remain without medical insurance even after Obamacare is fully implemented? They remain a tax liability (sorry to sound so callous, I know they’re real people). Where will the funding come from to cover their unrecouped medical expenses?? Nevermind, I already know….

    • Siobhan

      The top one percent is a tax liability too…I don’t mind paying a little more in taxes to ensure that someone less fortunate than I is taken care of if they become ill…but I do mind taking up the slack for people who have more money than they know what to do with who receive big tax cuts, exemptions and loopholes in order to protect their wealth.

      • Mike Muskalla

        I love the way everyone jumps all over the top one percent, especially while we’re ripping the doors off the hinges at the local Best Buy to get the latest iPad or X-box… We made them the top one percent because we gave them our money for their products, can’t fault them for being successful. But yea, I do agree, definitely close the loopholes & exemptions and force them back to the 35% tax bracket they belong in. And I do mind paying a little more in taxes. I’ve been paying a little more in taxes for the 50 years I’ve been in the labor force. It’s always “just a little more”… What I really wish is our govt would quit wasting the tax money we already give them. Get rid of the wasteful spending first, then I wouldn’t mind spending a little more in taxes if it makes our country a better place…

        • Just imagine how much waste will come about from this health care plan. SMH
          Someone will be gettin rich and the rest of the citizens will not be any better off.

        • Melissa

          Thank you for pointing out the OBVIOUS issue here…the fact that our gov’t spends money like its drinking water is what is so painful about paying taxes. I do not mind paying them for endless reasons – I know they provide me (in many ways) with the things I have access to (parks, roads, schools) etc. but when I KNOW my tax money is being wasted in a time where we should be conservative is ludicrous to me. I think of the times in my life when cash wasn’t so accessible and what did I do??? I adjusted my lifestyle to suit what I could afford. The main issue with the government today is all based around money and the ridiculous spending that occurs. But before anyone attacks me on this point, I’ll say it – I know it’s difficult for anyone to “choose” what’s important to spend money on and what is not.

          • tmccaf

            Wars typically stimulate the economy. Of course that was when they were real wars, and not “conflicts” that drag on, and on, and on, with llittle to no chance of a successful outcome for either side.

      • Well I do mind paying a little more in taxes. I already pay Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, Sales Tax, Social Security Tax, Real Estate Tax plus all the other taxes in the things you buy. Enough with the taxes already. And of the millions without coverage, most of this is by THEIR CHOICE. Young people in good health choose not to pay and buy their own insurance since they are in good health. This is just a numbers game by the politicians pushing the reform. Why in a health care bill is their a clause to hire an additional 18,000 IRS agents. WAKE UP!!!!
        Enough with the handouts. I don’t mind helping the REAL needy either but half the money goes to people faking injuries and lying to get money. The government needs to focus their energy on their ridiculous spending and people taking advantage of the system. And one last question If this health plan is so great WHY ISN”T OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE SENATE THE HOUSE AND EVEN OUR PRESIDENT GOING TO BE ON THIS PLAN. Are they to good for it? Also why do they have their own pension plan with LIFETIME benefits and are not going to collect social security like the rest of us. WAKE UP people THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT ANY OF US THEY JUST CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES AND WHERE THEIR NEXT PAYOFF IS COMING. Put them in our plans and you will only then see how it changes for the better!!!!!!!!!! One last question WHO ELSE GETS TO VOTE ON THEIR OWN RAISES???? In the real world you only get a raise for performing a good job. IN THE REAL WORLD MOST OF THESE POLITICIANS WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED. And thats what has to be done. FIRE THESE GUYS COME NOVEMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Angela gholson

          What happens when insurance companies go bankrupt because they can’t offer coverage as cheap as this government plan.the only insurance available will then be government controlled. How fast is the price going to skyrocket? Who will be able to afford it then?? The government will eventually choose who gets insurance and who doesn’t. That is communism and slavery.

          • tmccaf

            Angela – Insurance companies go bankrupt??? Seriously. Do you have any idea how much money they make, and don’t pay out? I will be in the ground two lifetimes before they even come close to going bankrupt.

        • I thought our elected officials and president already had insurance and the Obamacare states that you can keep your original insurance. The focus is on people without insurance not people who already have good insurance that they are happy with. I’m sorry Pete but that has nothing to do with the argument.

      • I think it works bothe ways. It is a combination of the top 1 percent and their loopholes/taxcuts/lobbyist manipulators/shipping jobs overseas with disregard to us as well as those on the lower end who are capable but prefer to vacation, get seasonal sports tickets, big houses, alcohol, drugs, many kids they cant afford yet no insurance.
        My concern like “social security” is that health care “tax” funds should be used for healthcare alone and nothing else. It should be never “dipped” in for other government desires or purposes.
        Also all american citizens making over 250,000 “even” if working in government should pay into this “universal health system” to be fair and “United.” Many folks in government make six figures.
        or they purchase their own like everyone else. I do like the fairness in this bill on women and men paying equally. I also think early detection and preventative medicine is a part of the solution in lowering the long-term costs of emergency room visits. My question is will the federal government/ employees accept this plan for themselves/ their own families and help by paying their way? Why and why not???

    • Indy63

      My mother-in-law has cancer (and no insurance) and was very happy about the provision in this law that says she can’t be denied insurance. She was told that under this law, as it is written right now, her premium would be $900 a month. They can’t say no, but they will charge you for it.

      • Angela gholson

        Who the hell could afford that?? Im poor. I work. I don’t have a computer. I have to use one at a friends house or go to the library. My truck is worn out,my roof on my house needs replacing. I don’t wear make-up or wear the latest style clothes. I need new shoes but can’t afford it. I own one pair of blue jeans and one pair of work pants.I eat mostly peanut butter sandwitches. I don’t have cable TV.I’m barely paying my bills and staying afloat. My grandma is on a fixed budget. She is in her late eighties and on Medicare. She doesn’t get enough on her social security check to cover her bills, prescriptions and food. The whole family has to chip in and help. Explain to me how someone on a fixed budget with no family is going to afford all this crap.

      • There was a person who threw color in the disscusion earlier but his statment about pelosi and obama was sarcasum. So do i have this right, eventually if i dont have health insurance i will get a ticket? For lack of a better term. Currently my children have insurance and i dont the cost for me and 2 children is $70 a wk at work but i only make $1288 bring home a mnth, still gotta pay daycare morgage food utilities auto insurance and gas in car… if i get a secound job to cover more bills then id never see my children and that dont work for me, family first.

        • Thank you. That’s about all it boils down to for me, on an immediate level. This is simply going to suck. And then further down the line, it looks like we’ll pay again.

  69. Patrick

    Obama got his way, the IRS can now tax people on behalf of the insurance industry. Why pay for a medical plan? When you die sitting in the emergency room because it was too crowded for you to be seen your family can thank Obama. It is cheaper to pay the tax and go to the emergency room for care when you need it like the illegals do. The hospitals are going to love the outcome of this.

    • Siobhan

      That’s not how it’s going to work . There will be FEWER people lined up in the emergency room. This is what happens now when someone is ill because they let something go for too long. Preventive care will require no copays..and keep people healthier and out of the emergency rooms..How vacant can you be..stop listening to what others say and READ a little! This is a bill that protects EVERYONE..holds insurance companies accountable..prevents them from screwing you with administrative fees and denying coverage for pre existing conditions..There is so much more to the bill than your stupid complaints..Everyone wins..

      • Do you have a logical explanation of how people that can’t afford medical coverage as it stands to afford the imposed fines in some cases up to $2,000 by 2014, so seniors, unemployed and underemployed this will protect and benefit them, maybe they should have found a way to lower the insurance costs, so they can be afforded before forcing this down their throats.

      • This bill does not protect everyone. All the people that need medical devices won’t be able to afford them because the tax on the device companies is increasing which means cost of devices will increase which also means that the millions of people that work at these companies have a greater chance of loosing their jobs which in turn hurts the economy.

      • heyblinken

        Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Funniest thought on the string. Good one man! No long lines……..hehehehehehehehehehehe. Everyone is protected…hehehhehehehehehehehehehe. Please stop! Everyone …..wi…win…wins ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

      • CombatVetForThePeople

        Well said, I could not agree more with you. Insurance companies will not give a policy to someone who is already sick, because then the insurance company has to pay for something, instead of just collecting money from “healthy non smoking, fit individuals.”

    • Yep, I’m betting the “illegals” are going to be running to the hospital emergency rooms just to piss us off. Where do you think they go now when they’re sick? I don’t think emergency rooms will be any more crowded than they get now. I’m tired of paying more in insurance so I can pay for those who don’t have insurance yet get treatment. Now everyone has to pay in some way. Stop worrying about the tax—it’s only on those who DON’T get the insurance. If you have insurance, you won’t have a tax.

    • Patrick, right now we have 32 million Americans without insurance, They are the people that would have to go to the emergency rooms for their coverage. (even the small stuff) Once they have care under ObamaCare they will go to their regular Dr office. Thus keeping them out of the emergency room. And freeing up the space for true emergency.

  70. Have you looked at what we have in Congress these days? Everyone is afraid to sate the truth that we have bunch of racists at war with the country because we have a black president. What a bunch of losers.

    • Siobhan

      You’re absolutely right…that’s a big part of it..and of course their lack of concern for the middle class and the poor although they deny class warfare..Our biggest obstacles are the neanderthals that vote in these losers..They defend them and vote against their own best interests.. .This party is all about Corporate welfare, and yet these working class republican voters scream about “socialism”.. They don’t see that we DO have a different kind of socialism…protection of the obscenely wealthy with huge tax cuts, exemptions and loopholes meant to preserve big money and place the burden on the rest of us…. Yes, they ARE losers..and although we were once too “politically correct” to talk about the extremism of the Conservative base and our broken system of government, we ARE talking about it now!…it’s being addressed now in a way it never has been in my recollection…the republicans don’t like it..but that’s just too damn bad. We the people need to take our country back, and ensure that the government protects us, rather than catering to the ultra rich.

      • Amoriah

        Oh right … we attack the very people who support the economy that enables those without wealth to work and receive compensation that allows them to support themselves and their families.

        Do or did you work for a large company, private entrepreneur(?) or have your own business? Without a way to “earn” an income, then how would you provide for yourself and family.

        The govt does not create wealth. In fact, the govt could not provide employment without taxes paid by those who create and/or share in their wealth through benefits, salaries or sales.

        Free is never free … someone always has to pay. It is only free if one pays a hidden increase in price to cover the “freebie” or someone else voluntarily or involuntarily pays for it.

        • Tony C

          Without workers (ie, average wage-earners) there would be no economy to speak of. Warren Buffett couldn’t have made billions without the dedicated workers of each company he invested in doing their jobs. Wealth is not created by the wealthy; wealth is created by EVERYONE. It just happens that some benefit more than others.
          That’s not to say wealthy people are not hard workers. Quite the opposite. Most well-off people I know stay late at their jobs putting in extra hours, or making more sales calls than their peers, or simply working more efficiently at whatever they do.
          However, saying that wealthy people “allow” those without wealth to earn a living is short-sighted and demeaning. Without workers, there is no wealth to go around… in fact, no wealth at all!
          Bottom line: there needs to be more of a sense of community in this country. All Americans have potential and value in the workplace. All Americans deserve basic health coverage, and there is plenty of wealth to go around… just ask Warren Buffett.

    • Pat you are right there are racists in the white house. But, it always amazes me that white liberal democrats are too blind to see their own racism. I cringe every time that I hear people call Obama a “Black” president. It just goes to show that Liberal white Americans don’t even think about how they blatantly deny Obama’s “whiteness” by declaring him black. Nor how offensive many of us “black” Americans” may find it, that white america still will not allow us to claim our full heritage. White liberals don’t dare to accept him as one of their own, right? It’s amazing that he’s so articulate, so smart, can’t believe that a “black” person could be this way. So white liberal staunchly defend him, (thereby justifying their hidden racism) by saying that the other side is racists, when they themselves have done to him, what was done to anyone that had any amount of “black” blood in them—and that was to deny them their FULL heritage, and lump them in one race. (the one drop rule) Obama is NOT the first Black president. He is the first BI-RACIAL President. The reason that democrats want to focus on his blackness is to get the “black” to vote or follow him, and use racism, as a reason to keep them tied to the democratic party. I am an Independent “Mixed Heritage” person, of which many would say based on my skin color I am black, not knowing my white and native american heritage. It’s really a shame, even with a mixed president in the white house, his own party refuses to call him anything except BLACK. This is the true racism, —many mixed Americans that are considered “black”, are being denied their full heritage everyday. To that I say BOTH parties are racists. In other countries, blacks are able to embrace their full heritage, not just the “african” part.

  71. What is nauseating to me is the fact that our “Representatives” didn’t read the bill, or what little had been completed at that time, before they voted on it. I’m willing to bet they still haven’t read it. In what part of our society, do you agree on anything, especially something of this magnitude, without knowing every detail of the contract or agreement.
    These people are making laws, without knowing the details of the legislation they are passing. That’s the pinnacle of irresponsibility. Is it any wonder their approval numbers are in the toilet. But over and over the same people are “elected” in to office. That’s irresponsible on the part of the public.

    • Sharon

      I think they make bills that long on purpose. They know they won’t be read, so they can sneak crap through without anyone even noticing. The way government has gotten is out of control. Enough with these giant bills and enough with the lobbyists. This country is ruled by money, so the majority has no say. Just big business…. it’s criminal.

    • Jahstu

      I can say the same for Representatives who rejected the bill. The fact that no Republican approved the bill is just a reminder to us all that it’s all a party agenda and no one really cares about the american people.

  72. Realist

    Teresa just because you lived through the red scare doesn’t mean it’s still going on. The plan is about health. People pay for necessities one way or another. This is a way to preserve a capitalist society if anything. The government isn’t taking over health care it is a reform. Every person has to buy food water and shelter. The only difference is those aren’t sold as a plan.

    • JYM654

      EVERY PERSON DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR FOOD WATER AND HOUSING! This system continues this handout program. People in this world have choices. Don’t own a car, don’t have to have insurance. Don’t have a mortgage, dont have to have insurance. No one should have to pay for anything in this country just because you are a citizen. All the benfits that this country offers come with responsibilities. Take on the benefit and then you have to take on the responsibilities that go along.

      • JYM,

        Yeah, life is great for those of you who don’t have anything, don’t want anything and don’t aspire to anything. Why, you’re practically becoming a constituency! If you’re not poor enough for public assistance like food and housing, yet, don’t feel bad. With a mindset like yours, you’ll be there about the time you retire (or become disabled) and the gov’t can stop milking your production and start talking to you about euthanization.

        If you don’t have X you don’t need insurance for X right? So if you don’t have HEALTH insurance, how are the rest of us going to pay for your HEALTH care? Or can we just pitch you into the ditch to die and flour you with lime? I mean… you know you’re going to get sick like that if you live long enough…. right?

        • Amoriah

          What did Americans do before “insurance” companies existed? If you got sick you had to pay for a doctor or you simply depended on family and friends to help. Did more people die and did more people have shortened lives? Yes!

          When you provide something for free to some and at the expense of others, you simply enable and expand the number of people who will abuse the system. If you walk into an emergency room for treatment without insurance, then you should be turned away. When people realize they cannot manipulate the system they will find ways to meet their needs or “find” the money for insurance.

          Cold and heartless … perhaps, but the absolute truth. When the “poor” find the cash to buy and pay for cell phones, i-pads and laptops, drive gas guzzling autos, watch big screen tvs with high speed cable or satellite service, wear name brand clothing and shoes, eat half their meals @ fast food joints, get weekly manicures/pedicures or have more children than they can afford, then they are not “poor” but quite able, with a little self-discipline and forethought, to provide for themselves. Why should those who work hard for their money to support their families be forced to support those who abuse the system?

          • thtonegirl

            If you walk into an emergency room without insurance you should be turned away…
            Wow. Says quite a lot about your character. Eff everybody who doesn’t have money. Take care of yourself, why cares about anyone else right? It doesn’t affect you so why all the fuss? I’m sorry, last I checked we were all human… So why is it so hard to be oh idk… Humane? God forbid people who are making plenty of money give up just a little extra in order to pay for the costs of what is called society. You would seriously have us live in a country of every man for himself?
            And you most obviously do not know any poor people, or people living in the ghetto. They most definitely do not have big screen tvs and fancy cell phones. They have old tvs they get from the salvation army, pay by the minute cell phones, no health insurance and they certainly don’t have brand name clothes. And um lol do you think eating at fast food joints is a luxury? They eat there cuz it’s CHEAP you moron. And the pedicures and manicures??? Who the hell are you talking about? If they have that they did it themselves and did not pay to have it done. You are just another sick, brain washed republican is has been made to look down on the poor and fed a bunch of bullshit about a class of people who are “lazy and bums”. It’s all lies. Stop watching Fox news and open your damn eyes. There are people in this country BARELY surviving and you are part of the problem. You are part of fundamental belief that “handouts are bad” and “welfare is socialism”. And it’s people like you, who spread ignorance and make people feel ashamed when they are struggling, when instead you should be holding your hand out to help someone out the mud.

          • Patient one

            Truth always hurts so much. Unfortunately that has what our society has come to. The more we give, the more that is taken. I am so tired of hearing that those who are fortunate should share more. Most of us werent born with this fortune in our pockets. We chose to work hard and make something of ourselves. The liberal movement in its infinite wisdom to make things fair took the self motivation out of the people that is needed to keep this country running. I do well for myself as does my wife. I don’t have kids but still pay the system as if we did. I don’t complain. It is the responsible thing to do. The point you are so gravely missing is every single time we are told to help the lazy, we have lost rights. Who cares about rights when you can get free stuff. We continue to help, hand out and support. All in exchange to be treated with no respect, no appreciation and then the joy of listening to people like you telling me we still don’t give enough. I hope you are so ready for when people STOP supporting the people who continue to live off the people who actually do something with their life. I donate, contribute, give and buy. It is just never enough for you people

  73. I personally am in favor of Obamacare, but I think the bill needs to be tabled until more people can read about (or see on tv) the above information presented on this website. I think when people have a better understanding of how it will work, they will be more inclined to accept it. Right now, the only thing we the public are hearing about it (on tv at least) is SCARE TACTICS being put forth by the Republicans and the few dissenting Democrats.

      • Teresa

        Regardless if the plan is a good idea or bad, if it is for the people or not. This is the first time in the history of America that it’s citizens are being forced to buy something. So shall we start considering ourselves a socialist country? Our national anthem will have to change because America is no longer the home of the free.

        • Jeanine

          This is not the first time in the history of America that it’s citizens are being forced to buy something. We have to buy auto insurance if we have a car. You pay a penalty if you are stopped by the police or have an accident.

          • docta foo

            Actually, Driving is considered a commercial activity. we can in fact, drive with out a license . It will be rather difficult unless you are lawyer and are able to site and recite the laws. But we cannot be denied the right to travel. As far as we know, we’re not conducting business when we travel. Not trafficking goods. Granted i think its great that people are insured and are required to pay for damages when they are at fault. But its not actually the law to buy auto insurance

          • Docta Foo,

            You have to provide proof of insurance when registering your vehicle or pay the $500 (in VA) uninsured motorists fee. Also you cannot (in any practical capacity) drive without a registration or license. Since you do not mention which specific laws you are describing I cannot refute their existence, but either way your argument is weak at best and does nothing to add to the health care debate

          • Mike Muskalla

            Not really… You don’t have to pay for auto insurance because you don’t have to own or drive a vehicle. Impracticle as that may be, you have that choice.

          • yes but owning a car is a privilege you dont have to own a car and anyone who owns a car has to buy ins. so why does this healthcare law give certain people a pass. one other thing to think about everything the gov does even when it means well turns out to fail or hurt in the long run and in the short run.

          • Actually, auto insurance is by the state. There are actually some states which do not require auto insurance, but if you have an accident, you’re on your own!

          • Patrick

            You need insurance and a license to drive on public roads. I need neither to drive on my personal property. I know kids 12-13 years old that drive trucks , tractors, combines and other farm equipment and have done so for years. Further more the main reason you have insurance is to pay for the person you hit.

          • brandy

            It isn’t law to buy car insurance but there are penalties involved if you don’t…that isn’t unconstitutional and neither is Obamacare because you can choose not to buy health insurance, but also will be penalized. The constitution does not allow them to make us purchase health insurance but does allow them to tax us if we don’t….

          • We are not being forced to drive. That comparison is one of the worst out there…albiet if you choose to walk it looks like you now have to have insurance for that thanks to Obamacare.

        • jessica

          in michigan it is required by law to own car insurance if you own a vehicle or you get ticketed and fined. you also cannot register the car without proof of insurance.

          • Yes, in Michigan car insurance is required, only if you own the car. BUT only basic coverage is required, and it is NOT for the benefit for self. It is to cover any potential damages to the other party. However, I am not required to have car insurance to have a license to drive. I am NOT required to have insurance to ride in a vehicle. Nor, am I required to have car insurance if I do not have a vehicle. I am not required to have car insurance, if I rent a vehicle, BUT, if I hit someone, I am responsible because I took the waiver. So this clearly is not the same thing, where I am required to have insurance just because I live and walk on the earth. Insurance does not equal health care, nor does it equal access to care, nor does it equal healthier longer lives. People aren’t dying because they don’t have health insurance, that’s like saying people are having car accidents because they don’t have auto insurance.

      • Teresa

        Regardless if the plan is a good idea or bad, if it is for the people or not. This is the first time in the history of America that it’s citizens are being forced to buy something. So shall we start considering ourselves a socialist country? Our national anthem will have to change because America is no longer the home of the free.

        • Mike Muskalla

          No, not socialist. In a socialist country our Congressional comrades would buy the insurance for us because they would already have all our money… OK, maybe that’s a little closer to Communism but you get the point….

        • My question to everyone is how do you plan to force a fine upon people in the tune of $285 per year and up to $3,000 by 2014 if someone does not obtain insurance, the average cost of insurance people can’t afford, the economy is not any better than it was 2 years ago, cities are going bankrupt, people still can’t find jobs, food pantries are running out of supplies, your are also talking seniors on a fixed income some at $700 per month, if they don’t have medicare or medicaid, will they be able to pay for rent, some can’t even afford the medicare supplements along with monthly utilities forget about long term care or assisted living, the average in good health for single person can run about $128- $200 now what about a family plan? Seniors now have to pay even more for medicare suplements, when approximately $90 comes out of their monthly salary already. I love when laws are passed when not fully thought out, what does the president or the supreme court care they already have insurance provided for them by us. Let’s tackle the illegals that we have been paying for that get free healthcare, free schooling etc. that is the start of our problem, People that have not paid into the system or even social security maybe this should be a start. I don’t mind allowing illegals to stay in our country but they should do it the right way, obtain their citizenship, pay taxes, not work under the radar and suck all our resources and we continue to get taxed for it etc.

        • Michelle

          Social Security and Medicare is taken out of our paychecks without our permission also, for the betterment of our society. When SS first started, it was considered socialist and unconstitutional also. This is a program that has the best interests of our society in mind.

          • Thoughtful. And yes, some amount of what we consider socialism is necessary for the system to function. Is this it? I don’t think so. Your post sounds like that of a typical public sector employee.

            I think you can’t erode the middle class much farther before they just stop working because they see no benefit of (or appreciation for) their labor. This bill does not protect the people it proposes to, it barely makes a cursory attempt.

            What it does protect is the interests of the authors. The whole thing was a backroom deal, and it wouldn’t suprise me if the SC had a protected interest as well. Never mind no one read it, and no one that passed it has to feel any of the consequences. Your “socialized” benefit is paying more to big brother than society.

            Dwindling private workforce beware, building wealth is officially a much subtler task. Those of us who remain should demand an audit and some form of control over how the government spends our money.

        • What freedom did you lose? The freedom to pay $5.00 for a band-aide? The crazy right wingers are saying we lost our freedom with this decision!
          That’s right no more free ride on my buck!! I am glad people will be forced to take responsibility and buy health care instead of showing up at the ER with no insurance! Just because you are healthy doesn’t mean you won’t ever get in some sort of accident that you will not be able to afford. So now it’s time for you all to start acting like the fiscally responsible people you claim to be! Btw it’s not Obamacare it’s Obama cares!! I am a mama for Obama!!

      • Mike Muskalla

        Reading the actual bill (HR 3962), all 1990 pages of it, won’t really help clarify anything. I downloaded it and started reading. . Eyes crossed by page 10, near coma by page 20… No wonder Congress didn’t read it before they voted on it…

        • Rich D

          Mike, I spoke to two attorneys that said they had read through the bill and it was extremely hard to understand. They feel it will be in thousands of court cases in the next few years because it is so hard to understand and can be interpreted in so many ways.

    • AlMax

      Justice Roberts’s opinion provides a constitutional road map for architects of the next great expansion of the welfare state. Congress may not be able to directly force us to buy electric cars, eat organic kale, or replace oil heaters with solar panels. But if it enforces the mandates with a financial penalty then suddenly, thanks to Justice Roberts’s tortured reasoning . . . the mandate is transformed into a constitutional exercise of Congress’s power to tax. That power will haunt you one day, and for the rest of your life.

    • rangerrebew

      Read it? The US Hospice, nee congress, didn’t bother and now its too late. Because it is written in legalese, its doubtful the average person would come away more knowledgable if they did read it. So much is left to the discretion of the secretary of health and human services to interpret, so any conclusions are just best guesses anyway. In other words, its a law but no one really knows what it is. Congress has been doing this since the Civil War, writing bills that need to be interpreted by the courts so the thugs in the District of Corruption came blame others for their laws. They also created agencies to write statutory laws and them blame the agencies when the people get upset. I thought laws were supposed to be specific but nothing can be specific in the nearly 3,000 pages of this monstrosity. It is nothing more than a blank check for the US Hospice to rape the American people.

  74. PrivateName

    You know, I can’t believe these facts for two seconds. Your first line is full of it right off the bat. If you are going to prey on the ignorance of people on what part of Congress handles what in the Legislative Branch, then I would have to say you are one sick person. SENATE handles state. Not the House of Representatives. They do not even have a JOINT committee. Shame on you for lying to the people with your so called facts. If people don’t get you are full of it from the opening statement, they should probably read up on what part of Congress does what. If you can’t tell the truth from the start, why bother with the rest of your “facts”…unless someone wants to admit they are stupid and don’t know how Congress works…read on. You can be just as dumb as who wrote this then.

  75. Why would any healthy person purchase health insurance in 2014? The penalty is around $100 which will be a mere fraction of the cost of insurance. If the person gets seriously ill or injured, the person could then obtain insurance retrocatively since the health insurers cannot deny pre-existing conditions. The person could then terminate the insurance when they are healthy again. Any healthy person buying health insurance would be an idiot.

  76. So Dan, You mention Great Britain — I know someone who was visiting, got hit by a car, hospitalized and got THE worst care. They kept him overnight and didn’t even dress his wounds. That’s what you get with ‘government care’. I know of people from Gr. Britain that say “You Americans have such a good thing here. Don’t change it” These people live here and GR.Britain. They know both sides of the story. Have talked with people from Canada who have been sick here and say they’ve lived to tell their story. They would never have gotten cared for in Canada. Have other stories that are pretty much the same storyline. We need some small changes — not complete overhaul.

  77. Marc Webb. Where is it written that health care is a basic ” right ” of being an American? Then maybe it should be a right that we all own houses . No matter what our income or credit. Millions of people can’t afford cars. Isn’t that a basic ” right ” of all Americans? See what I’m gettin at. It is our ” right ” as Americans to live free and have equal opportunities to live and prosper.

  78. Rebecca. You don’t have to own a car, do you. You don’t have to own a house , do you?You can always chose not to have those, right? THERE is the difference!

  79. >”$70 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from premiums to be collected as part of a new government-run, long-term care program for the elderly. These premiums eventually will be paid out in the form of benefits.”<

    Remember, this is ESTIMATED.

    Also remember this: GAO reports that only about 20% of taxes collected for all forms of welfare make it to those who need it. A full 80% of those taxes go to running the government agencies charged with "helping the poor."

    We'd all be better off if government got out of the way and let the people take care of each other. The Talmud, the Bible, the Qur'an ALL charge the people with caring for their fellow man, not a single one says any form of government should do so.

  80. Rebecca

    I cannot believe you people are supporting this gigantic waste of money. You say nothing is for free but you think you will get cadillac care based on the amount you put in. Puh-leese. Not only that but a sales tax on real estate sales in inbedded in the mandate. Every time anyone sells a house they will have to pay 3.8 percent on the sale. What do you think will happen to that tax when healthcare costs rise, and they will. Case in point: it is already rising. The cost of the Healthcare Reform bill was grossly underestimated and the CBO (which is non-partisan) says it will cost 17 trillion over the next ten years. It will double the deficit. And you think that is smart? I am sure you all spend recklessly out of your household account and charge it to your credit cards with the hope your debt will be forgiven. If that is the case, no wonder the numbers just don’t seem to matter on this site.

  81. If you do not know the facts, please don’t embarass yourself by arguring with those of us who do. Read, watch the news, investigate and know what you are talking about before you challange someone who does. If the shoe fits, wear it

  82. Shantal

    So check it out… This bill needs a little more amending, but I’m glad it passed. I have health insurance through my job and last year i had an asthma attack which put me in the hospital for 45 minutes…. The bill for that… Wait for it… 1600.00!!! With insurance. I could just imagine what it would be like for someone without any coverage at all… Would I have died on my living room floor because I couldn’t afford to be treated? My fellow Americans, even our constituion has contradictions, that’s why they made the Bill of Rights and amendments, for change and addressing things that weren’t covered. Maslow’s hierarchy of needs states that our most basic needs are those of life itself, and how selfish of us to believe that any of our Americans aren’t deserving of that right. Get ur heads right, especially those claiming to be Christians. Who can put a price on ur life? What is ur life worth? Is it only worth ur 2000.00 deductible? Changes can be made to it, but bottom line, when we live in a country that can “Capitalize” its way out of footing the medical bill for 9/11 volunteers, military veterans, and elderly people, then it’s painstakingly obvious we need a change. Maybe it will cost u ur morning coffee or a night out getting drunk, but what ever. The beautiful thing about America is that change is eminent and the smaller things can be addressed over time, bills can be amended as they go, but the time to start covering EVERYONE is now!

  83. UNDER OBAMA HEALTH CARE —1) OBAMA PUTS A MICRO CHIP IN YOU UNDER YOUR SKIN—(MOVIE 1984 REMEMBER) GOVT CONTROL. 2) OBAMA PUT DOCTORS-HOSPITALS NURSES CLINICS OUT OF BUSINESS-GOVT OWNS IT ALL.-HIRES MINORITY WORKERS AT HALF THE TRAINING-HALF PAY.-3) OBAMA CAN USE THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS ANY WAY HE WANTS TO–A PRIVATE ARMY–STORM TROOPS—HITLER IS REBORN AS OBAMA.—CONGRESS AND JOINT CHIEFS ARREST OBAMA FOR ATTEMPTING TO START HIS OWN PRIVATE ARMY.

  84. Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures
    by ROB BERGER
    in FINANCIAL NEWS

    What a lie most of this article turned out to be. Why don’t you post this article along with what it turned out to be?

  85. Vannessa

    I am actually doing a practice exit essay exam in my English Composition 1 in college about this topic. At first I wasn’t quite sure about which side I wanted to be on. Obviously the plan has it’s positives and negatives. EVERYTHING does!! Jobs, neighbors, friends, owing property of any kind, freedom…..etc. It’s the point at how we weigh the meaning of each pro and con and see which side will give us, society, a better outcome. We can continue now, without a health reform like the one proposed, and we continue to fail economically as we already have shown currently. OR, we re-examine and see that this form is not only aimed at citizens individually, it is also aimed at businesses like pharmaceutical companies, medical device manufacturers and insurances providing “Cadillac” coverages. Yes, taxing these companies could be a bad thing, but unfortunately the saying, “It gets worse before it gets better,” still holds true. Yes, someone (government) screwed up and we now have a HUGE deficit, but, obviously we need to get this deficit in control! I am all for paying a little something to better myself, my family and anyone around me. If passing this health reform gives the slight possibility of bettering our economy in the future, then let’s try it. As you all know, what we are doing now is not helping, and I have kids that I will not always be around for and I would like to know that I tried everything I could to help keep their economy the same, or better, than it is now. I fear the future of our world if something doesn’t change.
    Now, for those who keep whining about the cost of a “penalty” of not having coverage, did you forget to read the fine print???? There is an exemption for people with financial hardships!!!
    I do not know everything about this topic…..as I’m sure my crazy life of working 50+ hours per week, and 14 hrs of college classes, and probably about 15 hours per week of studying, I will NOT have time to learn everything about it. So, if you shall, please mock my reply and call me an idiot like others have already been called, but just know, I am a paying citizen who is still under the age of 30, I have worked 50+ work week hours for about the last 10 years….most of which was at least 70+ work hrs per week. I for one insist on having insurance because I cannot continue working this way forever just to be able to afford my medical bills without insurance or to cover the ever increasing rates of the employee insurances because of the ones who do not have insurance. Insurance rates would not increase so much if it weren’t for the domino effect of the people without insurance coverage. Also, maybe the government will have access to “dominate” certain things in regards to this proposed health reform. However, it specifically states employers will be required to provide insurance as an option to it’s employees. If I’m understanding this correctly, we have a CHOICE of choosing a government health plan, or whichever is provided by our employer, which will most likely be a private insurance company.
    I would love to learn more about this healthcare plan, but only if it was in the aspect of the government leveling with it’s citizens. Meaning: Just give us the facts in latent terms and do not sugar coat it and put the facts into hard to understand terms or context. Once it’s broken down to these terms, then citizens could possibly understand everything that this plan actually covers and hopes to achieve in the future for the US. I would happily sacrifice my God given relaxing Sunday morning, afternoon and evening to sit and listen and learn about this plan if it was the blunt facts being presented. I would definitely appreciate the attempts of bettering the economy with that type of due respect from the government. That is something the President SHOULD be providing instead of all this hub-jub BS that most people couldn’t understand without someone to interpret it for them!
    I found this article to be somewhat useful to what I will write on this topic about tomorrow in class.
    Vannessa

  86. Vannessa

    I am actually doing a practice exit essay exam in my English Composition 1 in college about this topic. At first I wasn’t quite sure about which side I wanted to be on. Obviously the plan has it’s positives and negatives. EVERYTHING does!! Jobs, neighbors, friends, owing property of any kind, freedom…..etc. It’s the point at how we weigh the meaning of each pro and con and see which side will give us, society, a better outcome. We can continue now, without a health reform like the one proposed, and we continue to fail economically as we already have shown currently. OR, we re-examine and see that this form is not only aimed at citizens individually, it is also aimed at businesses like pharmaceutical companies, medical device manufacturers and insurances providing “Cadillac” coverages. Yes, taxing these companies could be a bad thing, but unfortunately the saying, “It gets worse before it gets better,” still holds true. Yes, someone (government) screwed up and we now have a HUGE deficit, but, obviously we need to get this deficit in control! I am all for paying a little something to better myself, my family and anyone around me. If passing this health reform gives the slight possibility of bettering our economy in the future, then let’s try it. As you all know, what we are doing now is not helping, and I have kids that I will not always be around for and I would like to know that I tried everything I could to help keep their economy the same, or better, than it is now. I fear the future of our world if something doesn’t change.
    Now, for those who keep whining about the cost of a “penalty” of not having coverage, did you forget to read the fine print???? There is an exemption for people with financial hardships!!!
    I do not know everything about this topic…..as I’m sure my crazy life of working 50+ hours per week, and 14 hrs of college classes, and probably about 15 hours per week of studying, I will NOT have time to learn everything about it. So, if you shall, please mock my reply and call me an idiot like others have already been called, but just know, I am a paying citizen who is still under the age of 30, I have worked 50+ work week hours for about the last 10 years….most of which was at least 70+ work hrs per week. I for one insist on having insurance because I cannot continue working this way forever just to be able to afford my medical bills without insurance or to cover the ever increasing rates of the employee insurances because of the ones who do not have insurance. Insurance rates would not increase so much if it weren’t for the domino effect of the people without insurance coverage. Also, maybe the government will have access to “dominate” certain things in regards to this proposed health reform. However, it specifically states employers will be required to provide insurance as an option to it’s employees. If I’m understanding this correctly, we have a CHOICE of choosing a government health plan, or whichever is provided by our employer, which will most likely be a private insurance company.
    I would love to learn more about this healthcare plan, but only if it was in the aspect of the government leveling with it’s citizens. Meaning: Just give us the facts in latent terms and do not sugar coat it and put the facts into hard to understand terms or context. Once it’s broken down to these terms, then citizens could possibly understand everything that this plan actually covers and hopes to achieve in the future for the US. I would happily sacrifice my God given relaxing Sunday morning, afternoon and evening to sit and listen and learn about this plan if it was the blunt facts being presented. I would definitely appreciate the attempts of bettering the economy with that type of due respect from the government. That is something the President SHOULD be providing instead of all this hub-jub BS that most people couldn’t understand without someone to interpret it for them!
    I found this article to be somewhat useful to what I will write on this topic about tomorrow in class. Please review if you would like to see some of the plan’s latent term facts:
    Health Care Reform Bill–26 Facts and Figures
    by Rob Berger
    in Financial News

    Vannessa

  87. Rumpelstilskin

    No one is talking about the multi billion dollar corporations who are getting tax subsidies off OUR BACKS. No one is talking about the oil lobbies, drug lobbies etc…keeping prices articially high. And where were all you folks when we (Baby Bush) shot his wadd and raided the US treasury with Two Illegal Wars. Now everyone is snipping about health care reform. We NEED health care reform and we need our corporations to STOP screwing us.

  88. Marc Webb

    Don’t fall for REPUBLICANS AND THE 1% SCARE TACTICS…. THE OBAMA HEALTHCARE REFORM IS AN ANTI – DISCRIMINATION SYSTEM NOT BASED ON YOU INCOME OR HEALTH STATUS. REPUBLICANS ARE WANTING TO BE DISCRIMINATING ON THE MIDDLE CLASS, WORKING POOR, POOR ELDERLY AND FEEBLE INDIVIDUALS BASED ON IF YOU CAN’T PAY FOR IT TOUGH LUCK.
    IF CONGRESS AND SENATE GET FREE HEALTH CARE AND WE PAY THEIR SALARIES, THEN WHY CAN’T THE REST OF THE AMERICANS HAVE THE SAME TREATMENT. KEEPING THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WITH OUT HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS IT OUT RIGHT DISCRIMINATION. ITS JUST LIKE THE CIVIL RIGHTS AGAIN.. WHEN ONE CLASS OF PEOPLE DON’T WANT THE OTHER IN THERE AREA… THEY WILL SAY AND DO WHAT EVER IT IS TO SCARE YOU AND ETC….
    TOTAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS IT A RIGHT, NOT JUST THE FEW 1% OR THE RICH, OR JUST REPUBLICANS WHO CAUSE THIS RECESSION, JUST LIKE THEY DID THE LAST DEPRESSION OF 1929. LETS STAND UP AMERICANS AND FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHTS AS AMERICANS TO HAVE EQUALITY OF HEALTH CARE FOR ALL AMERICANS… PASS THIS ON BY PASTING AND LETTING THE GOVERNMENT AND FACEBOOK FRIENDS KNOW WE WANT EQUALITY.

    • Wow, I feel sorry for you…no…I feel sorry for all of us because you have no idea what you are talking about. Please, I doubt you truly know what is in the AHCA. Since it was passed, the cost has gone from a “projected” 900 billion to almost 1.75 Trillion. If you are 27, and do not have a job that offers “healthcare”, you will be forced to buy it. It will not be free. If you do not buy it, you will be fined. Do you know how much the fine is? If you are older, there will be a 15 member panel who will decide if you are worthy of an operation, or not. My Canadian friends like Obama…he is “cool”, but have to admit that their grandmother is still waiting for surgery after two years. Sound a little bit like Insurance companies? This 2000 plus page bill that you think you love, is not even going to insure 100% of the US population, which is what I think many people believe. We need reform…we do not need this bill. This bill will also guarantee that doctors will quit, and waiting to see a doctor will take even longer. The cost of my insurance plan has already increased since The “Affordable” Healthcare Act was passed. It is projected to go up even more. My HSA will be phased out, which I am not happy about because I like having a high deductible, and coverage for major problems, but not for running to the doctor every time I have a runny nose. It makes me more responsible and it would help lower costs if more people had this kind of coverage. People are too emotional about this plan and too hateful about the “other” party. So keep on “hatin'”, and we will get nowhere fast.

  89. Marc Webb

    Let see the Medicare and Medicaid, Auto insurance, Federal and State income tax is required by law. So what is the problem? All Obama Care Health Care Reform is an extension of Medicare and Medicaid. You get to have your doctor you want, and choose what coverage and keep your health insurance while you may need to change jobs. Also it raised taxes on the 1% who get 100% medical care. What is fair about that? If government congress and senators get free health care… We pay there salaries… but we don’t get free health care treatment. Dont anyone tell me they want to pay high insurance cost, or full payment and cost of being in the hospital. My mother had my father who had unknow complications with why he was dying. The cost after the day he died was. 250,000 dollars. So how is a woman who only makes 15,000 a year supposed to pay for that. She had to claim bankruptcy, and when you claim bankruptcy. It cost you and I as Americans to cover the cost, by paying higher premiums and when people who have no insurance like the poor or working poor or middle class…. When they get sick the company they work for pays deeply for the missing work, then the hospital pays due to not getting paid, and the Americans pay for the unpaid bills and we all Americans pay for it in higher taxes and higher premiums. On when the Equality of Health Care is made Equal we all get the benefits of good health and cheaper rates and etc….Keeping All Americans from Equal Health Care is Discrimination base on how much you make. The wealth get to be healthy and the poor get to die. What justice is that… It says in the constitution all of us are created equal… not just the rich.

  90. Edward Norton

    Incredible that you imply your conveying an unbiased opinion. What a joke.
    Obamacare is an obamanation. We elect politicians to stand up and do the right thing by Americans, not follow a greedy powergrab agenda. Not one of the elected politician had a hand in writing the healthcare bill, it was outsourced. Most current politicians still have no idea of the vast American economy takeover Obamacare directs. I didnt see any of those great points in your so stated unbiased “facts”.
    Everything that candy coats the outside of Obamacare could have been written on a few dozen sheets of paper, instead the 3200 pages hide an overtaking of the American Economy. Its a complete money grab at every institution and business, thousands of directives that are not healthcare related. The latest poll i have seen says that 76% of all Americans think The healcare reform act will hurt America. I think if every american would read and understand it, 99.9% would think its a bad idea. You can candy coat the outside with rhetoric but the inside will still taste like shit.

  91. Tristan

    My question is hows the olan working out for MA? If they are good then we should be good…..i never heard any of them say the mandate sucks or the cost is way too high. That state is the template measure it to that..

  92. when you are a child will you let your parent die?
    When you are a parent will you let your child die?
    When you are a husband will you let your wife die?
    When you are a wife will you let your man die?
    When you are a friend will you let your friend die?
    I think obamacare is oke.

  93. Han G Thesobs

    No biases HERE! Just getting the FACTS, from far-right websites folks…. Does anyone doubt the US government subsidizes illegals and the poor healthcare? That hospitals give them lots more tests etc BECAUSE we do that? Now, ask ANY Doctor how much insurance billing and training and trying to get paid costs in overhead, over 50% is what three Dr’s that I talked to said. Now- CUT out the overcharging hospitals do, the extra tests they do, the extra surgeries they do, and then cut out 50% of their costs from getting RID of for-profit middlemen that ONLY divvy out teeny portions of the money they get, for actual healthcare? You get the 2014 PART OF HEALTHCARE REPUBLICANS hated!

  94. It’s such a con-job. Made by the corporates. Let Congress first take it down their gullets….see how satisfied they are. I’ll pay my 695 fine anyday to not have a primary guide me to drug addiction.. Occupy your Health.

  95. I am one of the many uninsured americans. That said I feel some level of healthcare reform is in order. However I DO NOT feel that fining individuals for not buying healthcare is the way to go. How does a fine help an uninsured person who is probably barely making ends meet as is? Awnser: it doesnt help the individual at all, but as long as the government makes a few bucks what do they care about the people they claim to serve. In short this reform bill is a far cry from what we need in my opinion.

  96. Vancouver1941

    This whole Obamacare so called healthcare is not about health.It is about power,control and domination.This administration has attempted major control over the auto industry,the finance sector, telling us what foods to eat or not eat,what kind of cars to buy(electric cars). This is a repeat of what the dictators imposed in the 20th century.
    I turned 70 last September and according to this highway robbery Obamacare I am now a “unit” and if I bleed on the brain I will “comfort care” or aka ” you are to useless to society and to expensive so we will delete you”.
    I worked full time for 34 years and paid my share of taxes,never received food stamps,welfare or financial aid of any kind.I wonder since I am now a “unit” or subhuman am I excused from taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  97. Abby Rios

    I hope the Supreme Court justices acknowledge how incredible foolish this bill is. It is a kind hearted idea to attempt provisions for health care insurance to the American public however, considering the reality of the economic crisis we are living, the amount of people health care will be ‘covering’ and the failure of other countries’ afforable health care, it is a mere kind hearted effort that will only destroy the economic ways of the scarce Americans who have managed to survive this economic inflation. OPEN YOUR EYES AMERICA. We’re only going from bad to worse. When will we hit rock bottom? Who knows. But at this rate it will be soon

    • Han G Thesobs

      No biases HERE! Just getting the FACTS, from far-right websites folks…. Does anyone doubt the US government subsidizes illegals and the poor healthcare? That hospitals give them lots more tests etc BECAUSE we do that? Now, ask ANY Doctor how much insurance billing and training and trying to get paid costs in overhead, over 50% is what three Dr’s that I talked to said. Now- CUT out the overcharging hospitals do, the extra tests they do, the extra surgeries they do, and then cut out 50% of their costs from getting RID of for-profit middlemen that ONLY divvy out teeny portions of the money they get, for actual healthcare? You get the 2014 PART OF HEALTHCARE REPUBLICANS hated!
      When faked entities are created to fake a story to LIE to the public you have to understand WHY they do that… It’s NOT to tell you the truth folks….It’s to LIE their ARSES off. To get YOU to believe the EXACT opposite of the truth. Period.

  98. The number one reason the health care industry doesn’t want reform is this; when all are covered the suprise income goes away forever.

    Q. What is Suprise Income?

    A. An uninsured person sustains an injury or become’s seriously ill through no fault of their own. Suprise, you either end up broke paying for medical bills or, you have to run up Credit Card Debt to pay for thousands of $$$ in health care costs, If everyone is insured the deductible is all that is asked of the patient as far as out of pocket expenses. No more surprise income for the healthcare industry. The bills that are submitted to the insurance company should only have to go through one set of hands as opposed to the uncountable number of middle men that exist today in any HMO system that all charge admistrative costs for giving a patient a phone number.

    Mr. Smith

  99. Most everyone that goes up in arms over this bill hones in on the “penalty” starting at almost $700 a year should you elect to not take coverage. Its comical to me, listening to the arguments made… how it’s communist, a violation of our freedoms, etc…etc… What people fail to see here is that “penalty” is not simply a way to buffer the deficit reduction of the bill to make the administration look good, it is a completely necessary facet of the bill. I’m in no way trying to garner sympathy for big insurance here… but hear me out. If you institute a policy (law/regulation… whatever) wherein insurers cannot under any circumstance deny coverage based on a pre existing condition, you would effectively screw any insurer and gradually force them into bankruptcy. That “penalty” is the only means to ensure that people don’t simply wait until something is seriously wrong with them before signing up for any kind of insurance plan to begin with. Imagine if insurance companies had to cover the cost of every American who contracted cancer, and only had the first months premium to subsidize the cost of treatment from each person… Furthermore, that “penalty” is because the government is left to subsidize those differences. Healthcare is still a private institution by and large… this bill (while FAR from flawless) is, among other things, a means of regulating an industry that should NEVER have been completely privatized in the first place. Imagine our military was a completely privatized organization… or our public education system… or the police… This isn’t about communism or socialism, as the “whats Barry up to now” folks would have you believe. It’s common sense and long overdue.

  100. Don’t be fooled by these stats, if you live to age 73 and then get cancer, in Obamacare, you get only pain pills, that’s it, at 73 your life is not worth the cost of trying to cure your cancer, secondly, if you don’t make your mandatory month premium payment, under Obamacare, the government has the right to go into your bank acco. LL.unt and take the payment out. I am not sure which page in the bills these two things can be found, but I do know they are somewhere between page 50 and 59

  101. Don’t be fooled by these stats, if you live to age 73 and then get cancer, in Obamacare, you get only pain pills, that’s it, at 73 your life is not worth the cost of trying to cure your cancer, secondly, if you don’t make your mandatory month premium payment, under Obamacare, the government has the right to go into your bank account and take the payment out. I am not sure which page in the bills these two things can be found, but I do know they are somewhere between page 50 and 59

  102. Jason Zellmer

    I am a college student age of 25. I go to school full-time and I work part-time. The money I make from my part-time job is enough just to help with monthly bills and give me about $100 for spending money. If i am required to purchase health insurance i will have to take on a second job as i already recieve the maximum amount of financial aid, scholarships and private grants.

    • Me1st!

      Zellmer ur in college to gain an education…Stop wasting my tax dollar on nickle beer night and graduate… besides your covered under your parents til 26 U TARD. So start studying and stop complaining.

      • renae pardue

        Hey Me1st, you sure picked the right screen name. You self centered idiot ! Did it ever occur to you that maybe Jason’s parents are dead or they don’t have health insurance ? No, because you are nothing but a welfare brat yourself pretending to be a tax payer. You scum !

      • Me1st,

        I’m sure you thought yourself immensely clever with your blind accusations and elaborate use of terminology such as “tard”. However, next time you feel like posting something ignorant, please keep your thoughts to yourself. I can smell the stench of your incompetence through my laptop. Stay small, nonfactor.

        Your friend,
        Eiot

      • Jeannette

        Me1st. You should not call Zellmer a tard because you do not know their situation. My daughter is 22 and she can not be covered under my insurance because I recently became disabled and am on Medicare, so my daughter can not be covered under me. She currently is in the same financial disadvantage as Zellmer. The people that fall under this category are the ones that need the most help.

  103. fred johnson

    Obama’s health care plan is not a government run health care plan that is a republican lie —it does not pay for abortion another republican lie –it does not kill older people again another republican lie –while republicans are crying about health care costs they are trying to make the tax cuts permanent which would mean that he government would lose over ten year some 300 billion dollars per year revenue from the rich many of whom want to pay more taxes to pay there fare share just think —and the repulican are telling you that the rich pay 90 % of the federal taxes –another lie –don’t you get it yet republican are pawns in the hands of the greedy rich like the koch brothers who don’t care about the middle class of this country like rich people like warren buffett does a democrat who care about the middle class and his country’s financial health

  104. fred johnson

    the constitution promises the people the pursuit of happiness yet 30 million americans don’t have any health care coverage . and they are dying because of not having basic care . the united states has the best specialized health care system in the world but the worst general health care system in the world even worse than cuba yet our costs for general health care is the higheste in the world . whats wrong with this picture is that for those who have health care insurance for general care there costs is higher than other countries . what obama’s new plan will do is reduce the out of control growth of health care cost and add some 30 million to the general health care system with out increasing the cost of health care what else could anyone want . would you like to have what the republican want which is the give the rich a 10 % reduction in taxes when they already pay less taxes than the middle class of this country . where is your head democrats want to help the middle class and the poor and the rich of this country not ruin it like the republican are trying to do wake up before its to late

    • If the Plan is so good, then why are so many companies asking for and being given waivers to opt out of it? As more and more companies learn the truth about what’s in it and how it will work, they are withdawing the support they gave initially.

  105. johndees

    Just having a job and hoping they provide you insurance would be great if the majority of jobs that we’re creating today wern’t with large soul-less corporations that are motivated by profit just like the insurance companies…i mean wal-mart got in trouble for encouraging its employees to get on welfare because they were too cheap to pay fair wages and provide affordable health coverage. Corporate America has no accountability but has all the rights of a real live citizen. Sure ….we all need to work and pay our way, but we’ve created a dangerous situation and we’re trying to outlaw all the labor unions that used to protect us , so whats left? Government regulation or revolution take your pick!

    • define “fair” wages and “affordable” health coverage….. please…..

      also, i would love to hear an explanation of why your employer should bear the responsibility for your financial and physical well being.

      If an employee told me that the company I built and/or run was some how magically responsible for their health and standard of life till the end of their days…. I’d tell them they were fired.

      • Hey Y,

        When business’ give health care packages they help their own company by assisting better work environment. When you receive good benefits, and preventive health care, an employee is most likely better able to take care of themselves so that they will not miss time off for medical insidents.

      • “FAIR” anything has now become what the Govt and Unions dictate, rather than what the Free Market dictates.

        It’s only FAIR that business, with their greedy owners, help us with our lot in life since they are partly responsible.

        The Government and Unions have also positioned themselves to make it very difficult for you to fire employees. Look at Teachers or Policemen for example.

  106. mattzweck

    i think obama care wasn’t that great of an idea period. i think people in this country should go get actual job’s than the businesses we work for would offer us health care coverage. i think people in this country relie to much on our government and not enough on creating job’s.

    • Slapjack

      Matt unfortunately right now it is very difficult to obtain employment. I was an unemployed engineer for almost 2 years. I was finally forced to take a job as a truck driver. So I have basically sacrificed the entire life I knew in order to start bringing an income in again. So as an educated person who had such difficulty obtaining employment, I can only imagine what some less fortunate people are going through in order to get back to work. What I have learned about this bill thus far today is that it is a joke (In my opinion). I also agree with you that we rely on our government far too much based upon the fact that they have failed us in the recent years. I am not sure what your last comment meant that “we don’t rely enough on creating jobs.”

  107. JimBob

    I am amazed that almost 100 percent of the country thinks like I do, that government is full of idiots, liars and crooks yet nearly half the country acts as if the answers to many of our problems lie in growing the government. Surely enough time has passed for Americans to see that every entitlement program and every government sponsored enterprise the government has ever devised is in financial failure. Because of this alone, no-one in their right mind could think that a closer relationship between government and health care is a good idea.

  108. mike springer

    FYI- Come Jan 1, 2013, citizens who own real estate (homes, condos, rental property, townhouses, land, etc.) will be taxed 3.8%. As if the housing industry hasn’t been stagnant enough. (So if you sell a piece of property for $500.000, you will have to pay $19,000 in sales tax.) I’m sure there are other little gems in this law we are not aware of.

    • Slapjack

      What? R U seriously telling me that if you sell property u have to pay the sales tax? I have never heard of that before. I thought sales tax was something you pay only when you buy something not sell it. If I am wrong I stand corrected. Wouldn’t surprise me though and I have not read the health care bill. That is actually why I am looking at this article; I wanted to know what in the hell this health care plan was; I sure don’t know as of this point. So all of you spiteful bastards out there lay off those of us who are not educated on this subject yet. We should come together and be constructive in times like this and not bash the crap out of each other bickering back and forth on the internet. Just a thought.

      • You will not have to pay sales tax on purchased property. The bill says that INVESTMENT INCOME will be taxed 3.8% for individuals earning over $200,000.00 and married couples earing over $250,000.00. This is an example of misinformation that gets people all riled up. Get the facts before you post.

  109. KellyN

    ”LYNETT: you are one big fat hypocritical idiot’ hahahaahhaaa What the hell is your problem John? Have you ever met your fellow American citizen? So quick to judge.

    I believe Obama care isn’t the answer to our health crisis. This law puts the Federal government, in charge of everyone’s medical care. If I remembered correctly we live in America. The country where freedom rings, where people live the “American dream” every day, where we the people have a choice, but this bill contradicts all of that. Truth is, not all people want health care so why force it on them? In this country we have a choice. Or so I thought. Starting in 2016, Individuals would be required to purchase health care or face a fine of up to $695 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. You might as well call the government Hitler, because their dictating us. The bill is estimated to cost $1 trillion dollars over a ten year period. Don’t you think we can use that money for the education we lack? If we don’t teach the kids of tomorrow then what is the health care going to even matter when we don’t have smart enough of doctors to treat us in the future. I love how the negatives weigh out the benefits and yet they seem to be so blind. I don’t know how else to prove it. As a 14 year old I see the problem, however; I don’t understanding everything. I, myself haven’t even read the bill but honestly who would want to read a 2,700 page bill. I do realize that I don’t know everything about this bill. The things I do know though are enough to be informed that this bill is wrong. And goes against the constitution, why are the democrats denying this? Haha pointless question.

        • Jeannette

          Kelly, you see wiser than many that have commented here. I totally don’t agree with the fine for not purchasing healthcare. I have a 22 yr old daughter who can’t afford health insurance. She makes about $1,000 a month. After rent and other bills, there is nothing left to purchase healthcare. The affordability is what needs to be addressed. In our state, Minnesota, poverty guideline for 1 is $904.00 therefore she does not qualify for affordable healthcare in Minnesota. This is the bigger problem, yet I don’t see to many addressing this issue.

          • Rebecca

            The issue is our country is bankrupt. I hope you know what that means? It means we are borrowing like crazy and any new programs are irresponsible. We cannot implement a 17 trillion dollar program especially now. We are no longer the rich put everything on a credit card country anymore. This is what people do not understand. You are lucky if the programs in place continue. We are trying to save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. By pushing for a budget and cutting spending. But that doesn’t seem to matter. It astounds me. You just want to know where your piece of the pie is. Why don’t you make sure our elderly and our babies are taken care of before you start asking for your share? Is that too much to ask to get serious about this country and its financial present, and future?

    • Is anyone else disturbed by the lengths people and politicians will go to to ensure that taxpayer money does not fund abortions? Apparently, tax payer money is good enough to feed, house, and sometimes execute crooks, murderers, rapists and other incarcerated folk – but hold the phone when it comes to saving a woman’s life from a dangerous pregnancy, or making her give birth to the gift from a rapist or abuser, or forcing the 14 year old girl to have her baby which will most likely be raised by the grandmother (if any are around).

      • Now you’re just rambling about nonsense, who really cares about a woman not getting federal money to pay for her abortion. If she really wants it she should pay out of her pocket b/c I don’t believe in abortions. No matter how you look at it, even if you were rapped and ended up a pregnant if you were to go get an abortion you would not be any better than the rapist b/c you would be a murderer! It wasn’t that childs choice any more than yours and they haven’t committed any sins. The things we should be focusing on are all these budgets and how they are being spent. One being all the housing on these criminals, especially the ones who got life sentences. If you’re bad enough to get a life sentence, depending on your crimes why don’t they make you work and earn your keep. If not then you don’t get to eat or if you recieved the death penalty you don’t get to stay in prison more than 5 yrs until you are executed. That way you have a chance to appeal b/c there might be a slight chance the court system was wrong for their criminal charges they placed on you. How about turning the border into a militarized zone so we no longer have iligal imigrants coming into this country and taking advantage of our system. Let’s cut the politicians pay and benefits. They make way too much. They have a civil service job. They’re suppossed to be doing their job to serve the people. Not themselves. We should keep a closer eye on these wars and what they are really about as well. Oh and if we really want to make a difference, when we have imports or exports we should take consideration on what we can do with the taxes and tariffs b/c right now a lot of buisnesses are going over seas b/c it’s cheaper to make the product and ship it back over. Well, if we take the time to re-adjust them we could make it to where alot of those companys come back to the United States. Which will lower the unemployment rate. We also need to consider not relying on other countries for a lot of our products. That’s just giving them power over us.

        • “If she really wants it she should pay out of her pocket b/c I don’t believe in abortions.”
          Wow, Chaz, aside from having a stupid name, I guess your preferences dictate policy now. I’m against wars, so why should I have to pay taxes? Also, you didn’t address the issue of rape (at least from what I read of your post; it was too long and uninteresting).

        • Chaz, That’s all true what you said. I do believe it’s alright for an abortion if mom’s life is in danger. Although, I believe people have to make their own choices what they will do, I don’t think everyone else should have to pay for their choices. What alot of people don’t hear about is all the regret, grief, & the horror stories women go through from having an abortion. Because the media only prints stuff that people want to hear, & that gets them all fighting w/one another. as you can see – No ONE can stop fighting about anything…like the other person who commented. Making fun of someones name just because you don’t like what they said. How immature is that? Everyone may say whatever thay want! But people just gotta start fights over everything. I think you all should be more concerned over that!

          • Jeannette

            Chaz, I do agree somewhat about what you say about abortion, however, most abortions done in the USA are not that the woman is pregnant because of rape or incest. Many women use abortion as a form of birth control. It is laziness on their part and I don’t feel that we, as tax payers should foot that bill. With all the sex education that is available, birth control should be used to prevent these “unwanted” pregnancies. Linda, I agree with what you say about no one talking about the horror stories. This is very true and if the women that are waiting to get the abortion were showed a “true” video of what an abortion is like, it might change their actions and cause them to use birth control in the future. Why do we have to pay for others irresponsibility.

      • That’s because premeditated abortion is “Murder” of someone who is 100% totally innocent of any wrong doing or crime.
        Murder the rapist or murder the incest-or, but don’t murder the innocent baby trying to survive, even if he is the resort of said crime.
        Two crimes dont make it right, they make two crimes.
        No one should feel better because they killed that rapist’s or incestor’s baby, because it is also equally the victims baby, but more importantly it is a complete individual and deserves the same right to live you and I the rapist, incestor’s and victim have been blessed with.

        The baby is an individual even though it resides in it’s mother womb like you and I did, with 23 chromosomes from the Dad and 23 from the mom, he or she or they (babies) are both of the parents, yet neither. they are an individual(s) and any one that premeditates, conspires, or assist to kill them is a murderer with the one exception of true self defense, which we are all allowed to do.
        Kid much younger than 14 have raised great children, Mary was supposedly even younger when she carried Jesus, and he turned out just fine.
        It is your kind of talk that has are country ok with 50 million dead babies, most not the result of rape incest or sexually active 14 year olds.

        One of the reasons are economy is down is because we are missing 50 million more consumers and workers, scientist teachers, doctors factory workers, inventors, cure discoverers, moms and dads, granddads and grandmas, boys and girls, military, lawyers politician, blue collar and white collar, and yes some would be bad and criminals but most would be law abiding americans, if they had the chance to live with their parent (S) or foster or adoptive parents.

        I find it hard to believe you would advocate killing babies with a straight face, just recently a judge in America forced a mentally retarded lady to have an abortion and get sterilized (AGAINST HER WILL) this is common in China, in India women are force to when they have a sonogram and it shows a girl, and they even starve the girls afterwards if the sonogram is wrong, almost like they did in Rome when they left unwanted babies outside to die.
        As Jesus said as you do to the least of these you do to me. It’s just a hop skip and a jump to doing the same to many of our elderly bed ridden in nursery homes. Please do some praying and soul searching on this subject because you are in-fact saying you want our government to fund abortions (baby Killing) as a right to kill. I understand those who support killing someone who has been proven to kill others with no remorse preplanned. but the baby is innocent of any crime, he did not make any one get raped or incest or have sex at a young age, he is just the result of it, but he or she or they (babies) are not the criminal.
        America is when it not only legalizes Abortion, but actively funds and recommends it.
        They will call evil good and good evil.
        I pray God opens up compassion and understanding to your eyes.
        Good Day.

        • You are right David. And how ironic is it that ALL these men & women who like to stand up for womens’ rights, are for the killing of millions of woman babies?…which is what they do in some places – kill the unborn babies only because they are female. How about this: We all know how babies are made. If you don’t want one – don’t make one. Why do people not see it as a gift & a privilege to be able to carry a baby & give birth. Woman used to be tuff, & self – sacrificing. Now everyone’s just selfish & if something’s inconvenient, then just get rid of it. You made your choice when you AND someone else decided to create the child.

  110. In favor of health care reform, is NOT the same as supporting a massive bill like the one passed.

    I am in favor of some reforms. But the over-reaching government plan, is just that, over-reaching.

    If my car needs an overhaul, due to a poor running engine, but is otherwise in good shape, spending $2,000 is better than going in the hole for $25,000 on a new one!

    But typical “government”, jumps in and adds every little want in a bill, then justifies the whole mess because the “reforms” are needed. This government, and in both parties, needs a reform!

    • andrew

      Good point with car. Thats why the government is making everyone get it. So your tax dollars don’t pay for Joe blow the republican with no insurance( because its his right) to get a triple bypass when the doctor could have told him to stop eating burgers a month before.

  111. You might want to check out pages 25 & 26 of the bill where is says the the Health Secretary (non elected ) : THIS IS A DICTATORSHIP FOLKS!!!
    They can do whatever they want with your insurance coverage and no one can stop them. Um am I the only one that is horrified by this????

    FUNDING; TERMINATION OF AUTHORITY.—
    14 (1) IN GENERAL.—There is appropriated to the
    15 Secretary, out of any moneys in the Treasury not
    16 otherwise appropriated, $5,000,000,000 to pay
    17 claims against (and administrative costs of) the
    18 high-risk pool under this section in excess of the pre19
    miums collected with respect to eligible individuals
    20 enrolled in the high-risk pool. Such funds shall be
    21 available without fiscal year limitation.
    22 (2) INSUFFICIENT FUNDS.—If the Secretary es23
    timates for any fiscal year that the aggregate
    24 amounts available for payment of expenses of the
    25 high-risk pool will be less than the amount of the ex-
    VerDate Nov 24 2008 12:56 Oct 30, 2009 Jkt 089200 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:\BILLS\H3962.IH H3962 rmajette on DSK29S0YB1PROD with BILLS
    26
    •HR 3962 IH
    1 penses, the Secretary shall make such adjustments
    2 as are necessary to eliminate such deficit, including
    3 reducing benefits, increasing premiums, or estab4
    lishing waiting lists.
    5

  112. These are just Democrat talking points, but are not actually “facts”. For instance, the bill will cost much more. The numbers were derrived from CBO numbers which were derrived from the numbers that were given by the Democrats. In other words, they told them the information required to generate the figures that would make the bill look “good”. In reality, they fugged the heck out of the numbers (read: Lied outright) to get what they thought the public wanted to hear.

    It’s a bad bill and that’s why most Americans are against it. Remember, the people in D.C. work for us. We tell them what we want and they get it done. They don’t tell us what is good for us, then cram it down our throats.

  113. Is Obama going to make all the illegals pay the 695 or 2.5 %. Look at all the taxes going down the drain on that one. I think he shoul pay 2.5 % of his income for health insurance, but we all know the American(actually British)people are footing the bill. Take out more loans from the (privately owned)FED, make the people pay it back to the Gov with interest and the FED just ran off with more money the the working man. I had quarter raise four years ago, while everything has gone up far beyond insanity. One last comment. Why is the Gov a front for the FED money laundering? Just calls us slaves and get it over with. Your just going to tske another chink out of the decreasing value of the American(fake British Pound) next year.

  114. I have heard that of the 45% of the people who are against the bill, many of them are against it because the bill does not go far enough. That would make a difference in how the numbers are interpreted. Can anyone verify this?

  115. The health care bill is and was a sham. The health care bill is another tool by the left to garner potential voters who will be beholding to government for another ‘free’ benefit. The end result will be much higher cost and much poorer quality. One only needs to look at any government institution, very high costs and low results with a morass of bureaucratic red tape. The health care bill should have been called the ‘government growth and citizen control bill’. The costs will be much higher then projected, no government bill ever costs what the politicians claim.

    • Peter, The USA currently has the highest healthcare cost per capita, and some of the worst coverage. Health is one area that the government, proved in many countries such as Great Brittan and Australia, does it better than the private sector. The provision of Health and the profit motive don’t mix well.

      • michael

        Dear Dan, the reason the US has the highest healthcare cost per capita is because we have the best healthcare, by far! There is a reason that other countries government officials come to american hospitals when they need medical care. Other countries in the world pay less then we do ,but they also get what they pay for, just like we get what we pay for.

        • George

          Saying our health care system is the best is both correct and incorrect at the same time. Private sector healthcare has created the best care in the world when money is no concern to the patient, therefore billionaires and foreign diplomats do indeed come here to receive care, however, our system is very poor for those who can’t afford their bills, so if you believe quality healthcare is only deserved by the wealthy, then ours is the best, but if you think quality healthcare is a right, not a privilege, then reform is needed, not necessarily Obama care, but reform is definitely needed

          • Chris

            Well said, George.

            The American Democratic Government is (supposed to be) one “by the people, for the people”, not “by the people, for the people that can afford it”. And while it does indeed seem that this bill over reaches at some points (especially in regard to the mandatory nature of the buy in) it’s important to point out that this is not something new for our government.

            I’ll draw a correlation between Healthcare and Education. Much like patients would be obligated to purchase health insurance, taxpayers currently pay for the public education of their neighbors’ children regardless of whether or not they have attended public school, send their children to public schools, or even have children at all. The result is a well educated populace- The United States has one of the best educational systems in the world, despite popular opinion. And to the free-market activists, I’ll point out that the countries with the best educational systems are those who have tighter governmental controls (most Finnish students don’t finish their compulsory education until age 25) and have very few privately educated students.

            If we were discussing a commodity that is less important, like access to high end technology, then I would agree that we should leave this to the free market to create innovation for those who can afford it. But, just as it’s accepted that it’s important that a country’s entire population is educated to the same standard, It’s unacceptable to leave our country’s have-nots to die in the street. We don’t live in a bubble and each one’s fate is tied to those around us. And if that means that I bear the weight of someone less fortunate, so be it. After-all, American Democracy is for ALL the people, not just the upper tax-brackets.

          • Rebecca

            It is the height of irresponsibility to claim there is no healthcare for those who are poor. Everyone is looked after in the E.R. rooms. And no, the cost will not be picked up by everyone in Obamacare. That is a fallacy. It will be borrowed and will double the deficit.

        • Tonya

          This is interesting, I have to say, Peter is definately right about the ‘red tape’, that barrier shows up in many political issues (local oil drilling being one of them). I partially agree with Dan only because healthcare is only bad if you make less than a certain amount or your employer isnt providing any. Paying for your own health insurance is pretty costly and doesnt cover much. This is probably due to the diverse spread of income amounts (not counting the top 5%) if I had to guess. Lastly, Michael, I agree we do have some of the best healthcare to provide (if you can afford it). I once had a healthcare plan that literally you paid about 200 per month and it only covered about 25% of your bill. By the time I had to use it I had basically already paid for the service in full. Many small companies have healthplans like this one that really will not help if you had any kind of serious issue. If you want better healthcare, you either need to be making more money, be in a union, or be working for a company that is very stable, otherwise the healthcare here is really that great if you are unable to use it.

          • I used to live in Canada, a short period of time, and they used a universal healthcare system and not once did I see a problem with it. Nobody complained and everybody seemed to like the services. I am born and raised in the US – worked for the last 20 years, am a single mother of three and I can’t afford healthcare for my family. It is offered thru my employer but I would have to pay $700.00 a month for a $6,000.00 deductible. I just can’t do it – I also make to much to qualify for Healthy Families….a funded program based on a sliding scale..I am just above the qualifying line…so we go without…if I made less then I would get coverage…something has to be done..

        • Terry Baker

          The propaganda machine has a high output- and facts don’t matter…emotional “arguments” are the usual. The idea that the United States has the best health care in the world is false.

      • Dan, the cost of our health care is not the issue. “Obamacare” as it is being called, is the issue. First, it’s illegal for the government to force individuals, or business to purchase anything. Second, if this law is so wonderful, why has the government granted over a thousand waivers from participation… many to unions and healthcare agencies? and possibly the most important question is, why are so many Americans going to NOT be covered by this “fabulous” piece of legislation. We have all been lied to by the President, and the supporters of the bill (of course they have an excuse, none of them knew what was in the thing)!

        • Of course none of them know whats in it. Most of them didn’t even read it, it was over 900 pages long and all that was running through any one of there heads were dollar signs. Don’t think for a second the Republicans didn’t vote for it for you and me. Not to say that I agree with the bill it’s self. Nothing that the people go agianst or is agianst our laws should be passed period.

        • Rebecca

          why is is that everyone says it’s illegal for the government to force individuals or businesses to purchase anything when state governement’s do it all the time..

          State Law in IL for instance is all drivers must have liability insurance. If you get caught with no insurance it is a huge fine and mandatory court date. The state does not care if you can’t afford the insurance. If you own a car, you must have insurance. If you own a home, and have a mortgage you are required to have homeowners insurance. If you own a car and and have a car payment you are required to have full coverage insurance.
          I don’t agree with the waivers. I do believe though that if the government is going to ablige everyone to have insurance then a low-cost insurance should be made available by the gov’t. Insurance for my family would cost half by paycheck.. Sorry.. can’t afford it. I need to pay for a roof over my head, food on the table, and utilities and car payments, insurance… and all the other stuff. A fine is not going to help the average american. I’ve got enough fines , taxes that I pay to governments, whether they are state, federal or local.

          • There is no law that says that you have to own a car or a house. If you choose to own a car, then you have to have car insurance. If you choose to buy a house, rather than rent, then you also need insurance. The major difference, is that homeowners and car insurance is meant to protect others, not you.

    • Even if you think that the government provides services with high costs and low results, it’s simply not true. Just look at the postal service. The U.S. postal service (a government service) provides mail to 25% of Americans, who otherwise wouldn’t be able to use postal services like FedEx ( a private sector company) because they don’t serve small towns.

      • Sorry to disagree Josh, but the Govt doesn’t have earn a profit like other businesses. The Postal Service is thier most efficient, and it is having cost overruns, closures and layoffs. Companies were in competition to help The Postal Service deliver mail, not to replace it. Companies like The Pony Express or Overland Stage. Fedex is able to steal market shares because of ineffiencies.

    • Nobody has suggested that this benefit would be free to anyone. Quite the opposite – have you not been paying attention to the argument about the individual mandate – each person must PURCHASE health care coverage or pay a fine (opt out as Newt would say).

      We currently spend billions of federal tax dollars covering the “free” clinics and charity hospitals where the majority of uninsured people go for regular (non-emergent) care. By reforming health care and insisting that everyone participate, we will save billions as a nation. Our overall health care costs will go down. That’s how insurance works. The bigger the pool of people, the larger the percentage of healthy people. The greater the number of healthy people in the same pool, the less it costs for everyone!

  116. i lived close to st george utah . i djdnt make much money.they have a clinic that goes by your income .one day while i was waiting aan older gentleman came in and was having alot of troub,\le breathing. he said he had gov health care but they didnt care in otherwors he got better care in a free clinic. if people werent so lazy,there are free clinics in almost every state givibg more personal care than goverment care

    • Tonya

      I agree with you. I have gone to clinics most of my life. I didnt have health coverage at any of my jobs with the exception of the one I am in now (only been a year and I am almost 30). And I have to say, the place where I get my birth control pills worked 3 times as fast as the fully covered doctors office I go to now (and they charge the same). Things that make you go hmmmmm…..

    • David Dugas

      Free clinics are not free, the government gives them the funds to operate so a free clinic is a government clinic. But they are there for just about everyone as long as you don’t mind waiting.

      • Jessica Williamson

        I agree with you David. When are people going to learn that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone is flipping the bill. I think it’s sad that we don’t stop to think who is paying the bill. Myself, I have had private insurance as well as Medicaid when I lost my job and I was pregnant. I guess I was very fortunate because I was able to use my same doctor that I had since I turned 18. I went to him under my parents insurance, and my mother was a nurse; I went to him under my job’s insurance, I worked in the legal field, and I when to him when I had Medicaid. The quality of care that I received never changed, only my insurance and the person flipping the bills changed.

    • Don’t fool yourself. Nothing is free. Just because you don’t pay directly doesn’t mean the doctors and nurses are donating their time. Someone is paying for that “free” healthcare you and that elderly man received. That’s the point of the health care reform act. It’s to make sure that everyone is contributing something so that the costs go down for everyone because at some point, everyone will need health care during their lifetime.

      • Great point. Everyone needs to pay because everyone will use healthcare. Same thing for Oil we all consume so we all need to pay the going price, nothing is free in this great land.

      • not everyone will need healthcare in their lifetime. youre incorrect but thats not the point. also, i am a taxpayer so i’m the one paying for that free clinic. also not the point. its not up to the government to decide on where i spend my net income. and its unconstitutional to fine me for not spending it where they decide i should be spending it. this is a steppingstone to a huuuuuge problem. government imposing laws on where we spend our money? how many cars can i own? how many kids am i allowed to have? is there going to be a limit on what size home or property i can own. if this obamacare is allowed where does it end?

        • Jessica Williamson

          Shay,

          You are allowed to own as many cars that you can afford to insurance. Insurance is one of those bills that you pay in hope on to having to use it. I have paid car insurance for years and have never used it. I have paid home owers insurance for years and never used it. Not to mention, I have also paid for health insurance and have not used it in periods.

          • Car insurance and house insurance are not mandatory. Do most people believe that, yes. Banks require it to lend you then money to buy them but it isn’t an actual law. The point shay is making is that it is our choices being taken away! The next point is if the govt tells us where to spend our money from now on, where does it stop?! As for the comment below, yes you MAY need healthcare at some point in your life, however ,y dad hasn’t been to a dr in 30 years, I have been once in 5 years and paid cash for that visit…I have a substantial savings account for an emergency such as an enexpected surgery or hospital stay, so please explain how me paying cash for my healthcare when I need it’s a burden on you?!

        • John Bomers

          You must live in a box and never get out. If you live a normal life you or your dependents will need heathcare some time in your life. Every developed nation in the world has healthcare insurance and there no nowhere that they tell you how many cars you can drive or how many children you are allowed. I personally do not feel like paying your hospital bill or your doctor visit. If you don’t buy the insurance the rest of us pay for itwhen you get sick. And you will.

        • Siobhan

          Everyone will at some point need healthcare…unless they are the Bionic man/woman..If I have to kick in a little more to ensure that someone who is less fortunate than I can have the same assurance that they will be taken care of when ill…so be it..We’re not talking about cars or houses..We are talking about human beings…there’s a difference.

  117. i wish someone out there would bring up all the cost of obama care.I jut learned obama care in 2013 will impose a 3.8%tax on all real estate transactions. the housing industry does not need to take that kind of hit. i dont really consider myself to be veryy pollitical but as i see every part of our life changed over the last 10 years and dramatically the last 3 yrs. america wake up get tired of empty promises and demade that things change.I CONSIDER MYSELF MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.But the time has come for america to stand up and demand no new taxes,start over with health care and stop regulatios that are suspose to help and destroy our way of life.Knowledge is power .start demanding better and more from our politians

  118. Yeah, these estimated costs of this are just estimates and are not to be taken as any where near the real costs! I cannot see how people can possibly think that if you overregulate something like healthcare and fix prices on something like an MRI that it’s a good idea. Isn’t it obvious, that we would be artificially making a price for something as oppose to letting the fundamental economic laws of supply & demand determine the value? Yes, healthcare is ridiculous right now, but that’s because government is already waaaay too involved. And the answer is suppose to be to involve the government more? Look at how well all of the government intervention in the economy is doing so far. The fed created the housing bubble with manipulating the interest rates to artificially dupe people into buying houses that they couldn’t afford. Everyone thinks it’s some sort of right for free healthcare…wtf? Where in the constitution does it say this? Where in the constitution does it say that the government should promise to spend 100% of the gdp on helping people? That’s where we’re headed…it’s absolutely unavoidable with the way the country thinks now. The common thought is “It’s more important that we help everyone have healthcare than it is to ensure that this country remains a country 100 years from now.”

  119. Great list of facts. You’d do even better to compare that list to the pre-healthcare reform list of facts. Like how much are we all paying for emergency room treatment for the people with no healthcare? Like what was the healthcare insurance industry’s revenues and profits for 2009? From Fortune 500 2009 rankings it was $275,615.5 Bil, for $8.613.9 Bil in profits.
    Right down that impressive list there are countering facts that provided the impetus for that particular clause in the bill. It’s funny how the stingy will pay a dollar to save a penny while the open minded and open hearted will save a life and never count the blessings and wealth returned by that saved life.

  120. Jason Marcel

    We need to remember that socialism is not the reason why Americans pay more for health care than any other people in other developed countries: unfettered capitalism is the reason why the average American now pays over $7,000 a year on health care in the mostly every-man-for-himself system in the US while the average Canadian pays half that, lives an average of 3 years longer, is less likely to suffer from diabetes, will not lose their livelihood or their savings should they get sick.

    Single-payer is the best system in the world. It is not perfect. Nothing ever is. But under single-payer in Canada, you’ve got everyone on one basic insurance plan, while individuals may choose to upgrade to semi-private or private options. Americans love to pat themselves on the back for all that apparent “freedom” they say they have, but Canadians actually have more freedom since they have more options to choose from, including the public one.

    As a percentage of GDP, Canada pays less than the US for health care, but gets more bang for their buck.

    A reminder: single-payer is not some kind of communist wet dream. It is simply the health care payment system we’re talking about, and not health care delivery, which is tops in the US. It’s the payment system that sucks, with out-of-control premium increases (which will go way up before they freeze under Obamacare when that goes into effect). In terms of health care delivery, even the Canadian system is almost entirely private. Private practices, private industry equipment.

    Single-payer will come to the US sooner than later. Just like gays serving in the military. It’s just a matter of time. How do I know this? It’s like what Churchill said, “Americans always do the right thing, after having exhausted every other option of course”.

  121. I never knew “good” insurance until my husband joined the military. Because you see, that’s what it took for us to get care and stability. Sure lots of peoples jobs “offer” a health care plan..but on barely minimum wage jobs and a family to feed, many just can’t afford the choice between dinner and doctors.
    I am grateful everyday for my husbands sacrifice and hard work so that we can have health care, and a stable income. Because that is not what I grew up with. And it is not what members of my own family have. I watch my brother suffer on daily basis from a serious lack of health care. I had to put up almost a grand on medication and care when he came down with swine flu. And he was a high risk patient. Without health care the Tamaflue(sp?) cost $125. If not for my husbands income, he would not have been able to get the meds, and could very well have died. This is only one example, of one person out of several who are close to me that suffer without medical care, and can’t afford the meds they need. It sucks out there, and if “ObamaCare” can really help out those who need the care, then I’m all for it! I’ve already seen some of the positive changes..ie: not being turned down for pre-existing conditions. I can’t believe it was ever allowed to begin with. Being sick is the whole reason one needs insurance..and to be turned down due to the very nature of the need…what were they thinking?? It’s terrible.

    And we should expect that the system is going to have a lot of kinks to work out. It takes time and lots of trial and error to find what works. Lets stay positive, lets find and focus on what is working, and then approach what isn’t and be a part of the solution!! We as a society can make it better. Our ancestor fought for and won our right to a free country,. That is proof that we can stand up and fight as a united front for what we want. Just don’t be all whining and complaining. There is good in what is happening.

    Oh and on a final note…education is everything. The key to a better future, to better health, and safer places to live. The key to efficient communication, and running of this country is going to come from educating our youth, and ourselves. Lets focus on that too!!

  122. Wow… there are some pretty intense comments on this page…so without insulting anyone I would like to make the simple personal comment in regards to the over all subject. I am frustrated with the Obamacare health reform because I work for a well known, family-oriented local small business and I am good friends with 4 other local business owners and unfortunately all of us are currently faced with the reality that because funds aren’t sufficient enough for our small businesses to pay for employee health insurance we are being forced between 2 negative options: 1. Change the structure of our businesses and raise our employee pay for contract labor ONLY or 2. Close our businesses. This new health reform has unfortunately left most of us searching for ANY affordable options possible just to stay in business.

  123. Scott A. Keeler

    This is an idiotic blog! I don’t know why I even opened it! President Obama has done more for this country than any other president I know of! He’s a Community Organizer, but of course not many of you know what that means! President Obama cares about people. President Obama wants to feed the hungry, give drink to the thiersty, and take care of our aliens, sick and imprisoned. There are a lot of ignorant and paranoid people out there right now.

  124. Ok honestly people this is not just OBAMA’s problem!! I agree that it took an awful lot of stupid idiots in this country to vote Bush in twice!! Did ONE American stop to look at what happened when Bush Sr. was in office?? HELLO MORONS!!! We went to war with Iraq!! HELLO EVEN BIGGER MORONS…then we continued to let these %^#[email protected] immigrants into our country so we could train them to blow us up!! WOW We’re super intelligent huh? So let’s vote in more Power by electing Bush Jr. Twice!! NOW, we’ve been at war for over five years and we’re in debt to China FOREVER!! All while the High class snobs shove more of our middle-class (WAIT! THERE’S STILL A MIDDLE-CLASS!?!?) money into their pockets and these crooked-no-good-S.O.B. Politicians make bills and acts to save their own Asses!! It’s ALL BULLSHIT People I DON’T CARE WHICH WING YOU LIVE IN!!! How about the theory of the American Dream? When will what this country was built on ever circle back around like everything else seems to in life? Next time you put gas in your vehicle, remember who’s bills that’s gonna pay…certainly don’t have much choice anymore but really how many billions of dollars are gonna get sent out of this country before any is put back in for the better? Maybe, just maybe this will make things better but how much worse can they get? I’m ALL for no more pre-existing conditions! My good friend’s insurance limit was up at the age of 22 because she had to have so many female surgeries!! The other details, well, were gonna have to live and learn…some countries have it worked out great and others didn’t work it out so well but all in all people…something’s gotta change in this country or we’re gona be the land of the poor and the rich with nothing in between!!

  125. Nickolas

    Some of yinz need to chill. Quit trying to sound to smart and all so proper. We are all the general public and it makes you sound out of touch with reality. Much like most of the politicians u like to destroy. It also can make it harder to get ur point across for sum. Me? Mb I got kicked out of third grade and never went back to school. I’m also a robot clank clank clank.

  126. I think that people in this country will find a reason to complain no matter what the Bill proposes. Land of the free home of the complainers is what it should say. For years and year people have wined that we need government run health care. Now that we are so close to having what billions of people complained about wanting people are coming up with a million reasons that it’s not good enough. In my opinion nothing is ever good enough for people in this country. we really are becoming like the people in the movie Idiocracy. People need to stop complaining about every detail in the world and be proactive to solve the solutions themselves. Oh wait I’m talking about Americans we are the laziest people on the planet and it’s only getting worse. I’m an American I used to be proud of that and still am to a certain extent, but less and less every day. Free country? Are we really ? We have all of these ridiculous laws. Prime example: Seat belt laws If you are stupid enough not to wear one you deserve what happens to you. But no we want to protect the people that are too stupid to protect themselves so if you don’t wear a seat belt you get a ticket, people don’t have money to pay the ticket so they put on their seatbelt. It’s really a shame.

  127. You Americans are funny… you idiots don’t understand that taxes are necessary at high income levels to ensure the well being of all. It’s unmitigated capitalism that got you into a unhealthy, underpaid, heavily indebted mess in the first place.

    Chris – The Canadian guy.

    • That’s the TRUTH as CLOSE AS IT CAN BE!! I am an American and think it’s the worst thing in the world that these rich americans get a break!!! WTF??? Who made them God? THEY ARE NOT!! We might still have a middle class if they would let us!! TAX THE UPPER CLASS!!! IT’S THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN MORONS!!!!!!!

  128. I’ve heard that if you have health insurance paid for by your employer you will receive a 1099 at the end of the year requiring you to pay income tax on the amount of your monthly benifit. In my case this would amount to taxes on an additional $12,000 a year. Could anybody tell me if this is true?

  129. Here’s a solution… Go out and vote in November. If you agree with the changes being made in our country, vote accordingly. However, if you are like me, and you think legislation designed and passed into law by the Obama administration goes against the ideals of our constitution and the American political system, then also, vote accordingly. Obamacare is another scam, just like the bailouts. I for one will never give up any of my rights to corporate america, the insurance companies, or the federal govt.

  130. Anonymous

    there’s a much bigger agenda going on…regardless of whether you’re democrat, moderate, republican, independent, green party, or whatever. there’s something going on…is it a coincidence that many mainstream artists admit to selling their souls to the devil? is it coincidence that their songs, music videos and clothing display symbols? I hope so! but…it’s all too weird to me. you all can think I’m a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but…I just want to find the truth and…I believe this country and it’s world is going to fall to its knees before God comes…just do the research…it’s out there. and…avoid Alex Jones. he’s a fraud…I hope many people see this…. I care for this world…and I want people to realize more of what’s happened, what’s happening today and what is going to happen. God bless you all.

  131. Melanie

    Seriously…we are supposed to give up our rights for a few small benefits. Right now my family has amazing insurance and we are lucky for that, but my husband works very hard for it. Well Guess What?? Obamacare has passed and our insurance companies are going to see the effects in the bottom of their pockets. This is going to cause our costs to go up. Ya know…Im all about helping out a neighbor or friend but giving up my family having affordable insurance coverage to help the rest of the country?? This does not meet my list of priorities. Some people, like myself are lucky to have insurance but when it comes time for our premiums, deductibles, co-pays to go up and I have to choose between feeding my children and getting their vaccinations. Why are we settling for this malarchy when it could be better revised or better yet left alone?!

  132. How many of us had someone fall ill that has health insurance? My mom worked for the county for 30 years and two other jobs to raise my brother and I. County health inusrance is by no means any kind of luxury. Her stroke happened in 2009 she lost her whole right side and speech. Her health insurance only gave her 3 weeks of stay in the hospital for rehab. We had her transferred to a healthcare center for more rehab, but the healthcare center wanted all her financial information. They wanted to know if she owned her home, how much her pension was and social security. I didn’t trust why they wanted this when her health insurance covered 120 days. I ended up having her come home, I quit my job to care for her and took her to outpatient therapy. Just as she was finally making progress guess what oh i’m sorry you only get 45 visits a year for outpatient therapy. So here we are 4 months after she ran out of visits and she is losing her abilities that she regained. Maybe this plan isn’t perfect, but we have to start some where. Instead of us bashing the crap out of it look at the benefits that might help people that do pay. By the way my mom was only 62 keep that mind you never know if it’s spouse, parent, child or yourself that will get sick.

  133. Does anyone really believe that having the federal government run our healthcare system is a good idea. Take a look at the US postal service, medicare, medicaid, veterans hospital system, social security. The list goes on.

    Healthcare reform, yes! Government run health care, no!

  134. The only thing bad about that is that we don’t automatically get Universal coverage and will be fined if we don’t have health insurance! We all voted for Universal coverage when we voted him in!

    We expected taxes to raise with that privilege of universal health care what we didn’t expect was this slap in the face! Now our taxes are raising and we are going to get fined if we don’t buy the health care we already couldn’t afford?!

    Anyone who lives in a state where Car insurance is mandatory and remembers when they didn’t HAVE to carry insurance KNOWS that it doesn’t make insurance companies lower their rates to be competitive! It made them RAISE their rates when they knew we had to have it or we got fined!

  135. This healthcare crap is driven by all the lazy people in this country that do not want to work. The middle class has taken care of their lazy asses for to long. They have as good a health care as the senators and congressmen do. I worked in the low income housing and the tenants were making more sitting home with their big screen tv, cell phones, food stamps and cash benefits than I was making an hour. And another driving factor is the dead beats on SSI. Sucking this nation dry. I am not predjudice by no means and the way the slaves were treated is appauling, but I think it is “PAY BACK” time for the “WHITE BOY”! I don’t believe in these illegal aliens coming here either but they are will to die for this country or they would not risk their lives to come here to work. The wealthy welfare recipients should be out in those fields working from sun up until sun down in all kinds of weather, making minimum wage and all the taxes taken out like the rest of sorry asses! Pay your fair share or get the hell out of here!

  136. it is so easy to be judgmental about healthcare when you have it but if you are one of the millions who do not have it and/or one of the 45,000 people who die each and every year (Harvard study) because they have no insurance, you think this is great. I have a suggestion, all you people out there who are against this healthcare blessing, give up your insurance for one year. This includes your children and spouse and see how much sleep you get at night for that 365 days. I do this every night because my children, spouse and me are not insured because we live in Mi and there are no jobs here. 2000 people show up for 2oo jobs. 500 people fill out apps for 60 jobs. In my household we worry about a job and insurance. Maybe the folks who think we can not afford this should try going without. I bet you may change your mind when you are one of us………….

  137. Everyone has the right to voice their own opinion. It is one of the things that make this country great. I am all for this bill. I have MS and can not get health insurance. My meds cost $25K a year with out insurance. Did I mention that I am only 22 and am getting married in a year. WIthout this bill I would have nothing that moment I get married and would not be able to get my meds. People that make a lot of money and can afford a good health plan do not like this because they think that it impedes on their rights cause they are taxed. What they don’t understand is that the people that do not have insurance are costing them more money in the long run than this increase will. Without health insurance the bills keep stacking up when a person gets injured or gets diagnosed with a disease. The health care industry has to take care of them and when the person can not afford the $50,000 that it costs for their ER visit ( which is extremely over exaggerated due to the hospitals and doctors needing to recover the money they lose with people that they know can pay) they have to write it off when the person files bankruptcy. I understand that everyone has their own view on things but if people would take their head out of their ass and think about someone else besides themselves when they are making a decision it would make a lot of things better in this world instead of people only wanting to get their and screwing everyone else. People that do not have insurance are not all lazy, or immigrants, or bad people. They mostly are people that have gotten the short end of the stick and can not handle to cost of it alone. If you make enough money that you could have something happen to you or a member of your family and pay cash then again, take you head out of your ass and donate some money. Not to look like a generous person, or to feel better, but instead to help another human being that might not be as fortunate as you and did not get their parents money or fall into money. Some people deserve their wealth and most of those people give money as they know what it is like to build wealth. The people that do not have to work for it and get everything handed to them on a diamond platter do not understand what it is like to work for a living. Bottom line: get you head out of your ass and think of others when you are forming your opinion.

  138. renee mirsky

    I know; I don’t even know where I am on this one. Probably neutral at best. The subject came up with an acquaintance of mine today, whom I (maybe) mistakenly called, though it was partly to talk about whether or not I, a bum, am out of work at this point, and ask if he’d still be able to give me a reference for new potential job leads. During the time we were on phone, the conversation evolved to this [email protected]#$%^&*() health care thing, and he’s a very good person, but EXTREMELY narrow minded about certain things, and can’t see eye to eye with anyone who disagrees with him. “My way or no way” is the impression I get. I could have done all manner of other things with that hour I spent on the phone, even if I am unemployed right now, and would have saved myself some grief calling. But this was someone I don’t speak to very often, so of course, the conversation went on for a good stretch. Still, a touchy topic like this almost caused me to hang up the phone, but yet I can’t afford to burn my damn bridges for possible references. My husband’s opinion would likely be the antithesis of this person’s, and me, I’m somewhere in the middle. I guess? If nothing else, sometimes we have to agree to disagree.

  139. so does anyone not see the giving end of life counseling to 65 and over year olds who are costing the government too much money to keep alive!!! WTF!!! Obama wont kill them he will just quit giving them their medicine because its too expensive and WATCH them die .. no big deal right!!!! retards!!! those diabetics out there when u turn 65 and live off the government because you had a stroke or something and cant work!!! guess what.. you’re going to die because insulin is going to be too expensive and they cant afford to keep you alive!!! same with anybody of any age.. if its going to cost to much to keep you alive even though you will survive YOU WILL DIE!!!!! IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU HAVE A 100% RECOVERY RATE IF YOU COST TO MUCH MONEY TO KEEP ALIVE THEY WILL NOT I REPEAT WILL NOT SAVE YOU!!! and wanting abortions to be legal up to the age of 2!!! killing a 2 year old what the hell is wrong with Obama!!! Sick bastard!!! i dont care that hes black or a democrat but i different black democrat in office just get this noncitizen muslim piece of crap out of office and feeding the american people bullshit with his sweet talking speeches that he doesnt even write … the americans are oblivious to the facts because the truth is too scary!!!!

  140. listening

    if i wrote everything my man KEN wrote about.. i would be a hypocrite after all i do drive to work everyday that uses gas..i build houses for marines and there familys who fight for our freedom.my older brothers are in the air force my younger brothers in the army in iraq.and ii’ve been on medication for diabetes back surgurey all my life. Now like i said befor i may not know how to write very well.. And i don’t watch fox news or rush. and i hate polotics.if this guy ken is reading this i agree with you on some things but some things i don’t and it has nothing to do with …color/race/sex/rep/dem. if this nation keeps fighting each other we may not be A nation united under god much longer. but we need to fight towards that! not each other..i’m not here typing trying to pick fights..All i’m saying is if we keep heading in this direction…..thats alot of trouble for everyone..

  141. By the way I didnt add stupid hatefilled BULLY idiots to my rant. Keep stepping on everyone eles rights and hopes for our country . The Muslum Americans. the Hispanic Americans, The Black Americans, The Gay Americans The Disabled Americans . The Uninsured Americans etc etc As their numbers grow yours will surely decline and then you will have no hope for even compromise . You make it so transparent. You use your so called political platform to disguise and hide what you really are. Biggoted, hatefilled ,bully. hypocrites. Look in the mirrior and ask yourselves one question. Why is it you guys NEVER can admit fault? Why is it you guys ALWAYS blame someone eles no matter how clear it is to the rest of the world whos to blame for most of the problems we have? You have your children smile and maybe even play with the different but at home inside your dark little hatefilled, dysfunctional world you plant those little seeds of distain and contempt . As your clones grow they might even become as stupid AS WISE on an earlier post who is so gullable and stupid he actually would believe our president must be from another country because he heard it on FOX news. Scary thing is there are millions of idiots who want and need to be spoonfed this hate. To know someone eles feels so bad about themselves that they have to blame someone eles for there pathetic existence. .Its The Musums fault. Its the Gays fault. Its the Hispanics fault. Jane Fondas fault, Michael Moores fault. Clintons fault,Striesands fault. Liberal medias fault, Sciences fault. Donald Ducks fault. NO Its your fault!!!! Your hate and fear and lack of accountability has blinded you to the point of risking your own family and childrens lives. Maybe they might even need health care someday or maybe they dont want to die in a war based on stupidity and lies. Maybe they would like to try and save our planet after all we have did to it no matter how you dispute climate change. FUCKING IDIOTS!!!!

  142. I see Fox news and Rush and the bunch are doing well . All these like minded hated filled hypocrites will believe anything the pied pipers of hate will tell them. It doesnt matter what the truth is. It doesnt and never has mattered whats good for the country or even their own familys to these right winged hypocrites. Whatever a liberal or democrate may come up with they must oppose it. Need I remind EVERYONE it was BUSH and a REP congress for 6 years that did nothing but bring this country to its knees on every level. Less gov? Gee I guess we should keep the oil companies and the banking compines and the insurance companys un regulated Freaking idiots look where that got us. Less Gov? Yea until you have control and set record deficits in both the Reagan and Bush administrations. Didnt hear to many of you yelling Less government then. Hypocrites!!! You are hate filled idiots with your head in the sand are going to be the end of this country THANKS by the way Yes our country is in trouble but I say you hatefilled rightwinged hypocrites are mostly to blame. I C its ok to lead a country into freaking war based on lies and stupidity but heaven forbid we try and help our fellow uninsured americans. Real christian there hypocrites.

  143. wise one

    was obama born in the U.S.?if so can he prove it? so far no if he could he would.would’nt he? i’ll tell everyone reading this i might not be that great at spelling.But i know when the Obamanation that this man is calls himself the president and somehow gets into office and starts forcing bills into law and forcing people FORCING people in the future to abide by his laws. not americas voted on laws that’s definite trouble for this country everyone in america……….even illegal aliens will suffer from this

  144. wakeup people do you know that around 53% of people living in this country dont pay taxes,who do you think is going to pay for this obamacare,and yes lets give free healthcare to illegal immigrants,we may as well pay for that while were at it,when your paycheck is smaller you only have yourself to blame.

  145. Rush Limbaugh

    @ John McCain:
    LIBERAL! Your Moderatism has catered to the Godless Liberal-Jewish-Media machine for a long time, but now I see that you have indeed abandoned your conscious for the side of the Liberal Media Cartel! Have fun in Hell you Goddamn Liberal swine!

  146. John McCain

    Now, Rush, please restrain yourself. Although my colleague, President Obama, has sponsored a bill that will could wreak irrevocable harm on our system of caring for Americans, we must be civil. No matter how irresponsible he is in sponsoring such a bill, we mustn’t resort to petty name calling.

  147. Rush Limbaugh

    Oh look, it’s the Beastl himself! So tell us, Mr. Obama, WHY DO YOU WANT TO DESTROY AMERICA WITH YOUR LIBERAL COMMUNIST ATTACKS ON OUR WAY OF LIFE WITH YOUR SECRET LIBERAL-HOMOSEXUAL-JEWISH AGENDA?! You and your cadre of Godless heathens will face Eternal Damnation for your health care bill! Your bill will send a brown flood of illegal immigrants from Mexico and destroy our American way of life! I hope you’re happy Mr. President! Because of your actions we will all be speaking Spanish and will be worshiping the False God of the Vatican within ten years! So tell me, Mr. Obama, where in the bill did you hide the need to brand us will Your Mark, 666, on our hands or foreheads?! Mr. Obama, you and your liberal army will be remembered as the cartel that conspired to destroy America!

  148. Look. I don’t agree with the Health Care Reform Bill neither. The only thing I personally am going to say about this topic is that I find it simply to be a escape goat using a don’t ask don’t tell technique. The escape goat is baisically a way for our country to become debt free again and bounce back from the bail-outs that were givin out a while back. In addition to that it also could cause Americans to become even more in debt. Reason #1 is the cost of coverage is based off of credit scores. Reason # 2 is that if you can’t afford the coverage you’ll still get fined a penalty at tax time. B/c the IRS will be backing the Bill up 100%. Those are documented facts not compulsive comments.

  149. tiger babe

    Obama is not tring to convince other countries leaders that he himself is great. He is trying to improve our countries ties with them. People who are mentioning that Obama is a socialist, I really don’t see where being a socialist is so horrible. I am not saying that he is, but I believe that we should take care of our own people in America. I am still waiting for universal health care, where are are doctors who make house calls (France) and childcare that is a dollar a day (Norway). People cannot work if they cannot afford childcare plus rent and food. If we all give, then we will all have, what is wrong with that? I would like to see peace, compassion, empathy, and love; when I look at America. Not hate, selfishness, intolerance, and greed. Feed people here, educate us for free (The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France), why not pay some more taxes and not have to worry as much about how we would pay for the really expensive expenses? They have proven with education the population goes down, costs would go down and just maybe America would be considered a real world power again.

    • yeah! We have the best health care in the world, but the most expensive. so a lot of people cannot get simple vaccinations IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAS THE BEST HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD!

    • crystal

      This country was built by the people from all those country you mentioned….but yet they left and came here? Maybe its not that great there after all…

      • No it isn’t great. The U.S. has it better than about the entire rest of the world, not surprised they want to come here either. I say good on them. You go try to make a go of it in Asia or Africa and many countries in South America. Been to many of them myself, some were wonderful places to visit but the number of poor was a much greater percentage of the population and guess what, they got little to no health care. Yeah this blog is making me more and more a supporter of the bill. Better get off and read up some more maybe we all do.

  150. Mr.Johnson

    Have you not notice we have lost our” Business Ethics” too many are gaming the system for their advantage Wall st. Doctors ,Lawyers, Insurance Co.Pharmaceutical industry.There was a time this nation put patriotism before profit, but not now…Obama will lead us back to what we once were.

    • I assume you are referring to World War I or II when you talk about putting Patriotism before profit. That was a time when the US was fighting in a popular war, supported by most of the world. The business owners had a huge investment in making sure those wars went their way, much the same as they do now. There are few among us that would invest in and operate a business without some belief that it would return a profit. Patriotism is still alive and well. It may well be the government that has changed. Why are we still fighting wars on two fronts when Obama campaigned on a platform calling for the end of the war against terror in Iraq and Afghanistan? He is leading us, but it is to a place we have never been and never should be. When business is told that they cannot make a profit, they will not exist. Then where will Obama get his money to fly all over the country trying to convince the populace how great he is.

      • Hey pardner, just saying, what I heard Obama campaign on in regards to war was withdrawing troops in Iraq and keeping up the fight in Afghanistan. I know I am late on this thread but seems to me he is keeping to his word on this one.

    • Austin

      Hahahahaha black people don’t use tanning beds because they really don’t need to get any darker. White people don’t like being translucent so they tan even though it’s a proven fact that tanning beds can cause skin cancer. It may suck that it is getting taxed but if you think about it, it is a health risk in a way… However so is McDonald’s so idk what they’re going to do about that 🙂

    • Just commenting, because I think you are making something out of nothing. Tanning salons have been identified as of not being the healthiest place to tan. Not only do they make money off of pumping your body with cancer causing UVA rays they, in some cases provide you with an unclean Bacteria ridden environment to boot. I would argue that in some locations where you may not be getting your daily quota of Vitamin D a tanning salon might be a good thing, but generally it is an unhealthy habit and I see this as a Sin Tax. And yes, I actually agree with a Sin Tax. For example, an educated man could say that drinking copious amounts of liquor is bad for you, I do, and I do, and would not be against, the U.S. government taxing the bejeezus out of me, if they thought that would help reduce my unhealthy choice. I am sure that the government would do it if the alcohol lobbyists weren’t putting money into the political piggy bank. Finally your comment about racism seems a little odd. I think you are grasping for straws.

  151. Joe King Mann

    This Health Care Reform Forces people to have Care or get fined.
    Poorer people get care from other peoples taxes.
    Not the best idea the governments had in a while.

    \ /
    ‘_’

  152. This issue is not Democrat Vs. Republican, it is actually what is America. We (all of society) has created a have and have not situation that appears about to emplode. This did not start with Obama or Bush, but when decisions were made to save everyone. The welfare mentality, where everybody deserves a living, even if they do not have to work for it, may have been the begining. We now have fifth and sixth generation individuals, with there hand out for something that was supposed to be a program to give someone a temporary hand until they could find work. It has now become so embedded in our society, that many think it is possible for everyone to have a “living Wage” and Free Medical Care and it should be on the back of those rich cat business owners. Take it from a small business owner, the end is near and nobody is going to like it.

  153. Absoloutly Not! We do not even know what this bill or now law consists of, we the people have not been granted permission to read the contents of a health care plan we are voting on. Giving your Okay to something that you do not fully understand is idiotic.

    • …You do realize the bill/law is posted online, correct? Part of Obama’s “Open Door Policy”. Use Google, you should be able to find numerous pages to where it’s located or you can directly email your senator, representative, or the White House for a copy of the bill/law.

      Here’s a PDF link, just in case you don’t know how to use Google. Granted, it’s 1900 + pages, but if you truly want to educate yourself on the bill, I suggest reading it before accusing others of being “uneducated” about it.
      http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

  154. Jamie kelson

    This healthcare thing is bullshit but Im tried of these fuckin conservates right-wingers bashing on Obama . If george w bush would have passed this then they would have been all for it ,where was this fuckin teaparty bullshit shit when bush taxes hikes crashed the economy In the first place. I’m not defending the health care bill, but when you call someone a communist. Who’s just trying to help the poor people of this country. That crossing the line. Now he could have did better and listen to white America more. But bush did the same thing how many times did the american people say we want our people gone out of Iraq. This muthafucka did listen one bit. So if any body wants to debate on this I have a email, a phone number, speak to me I want here from you

    • It appears this is a matter of discrimination, and correct me by all means if I am wrong however answer this one question for me. You state that President Bush would not pull our troops out of Iraq well that may be true, however has Obama kept his number one stand to also pull the troops out. The answer is no infact he has just deported several more troops to the middle east and increased your taxes by 40% with his new health care plan. So yes socialism must be his goal here.

      • The answer is yes he has kept his promise to pull our troops out. According to the timetable they will be totally withdrawn by the end of next year. Obama increasing troop levels in Afghanistan was a part of his platform all along, and he has stayed true to it as well. Much military progress has been made there since the president took office.

        He did not increase your taxes by 40%; you should reread the article. I’m really disappointed that some people on this thread refer to Obama as a socialist and compare him to Hitler. They are such unfair and uneducated accusations.

    • Bush would have never done anything like this anyway. Our economy was great under Pres. Bush up till 2006 ( we had 4% unemployment not 12% like now) The Demomcats took the majority in Congress and kept it for the last 2 years of Bushes administration, which; was when the economy started going south and 800,000 jobs were lost. Now the Dems have had 4 (four) years of destruction and blame bush.
      Yes, the war under Clinton and Bush and Obama are regrettably necessary. Is all the cursing necessary? It destroys your credibility.

  155. mystery kid

    i am forced to write an essay about the retarded healthcare reform bill. i don’t care about the topic. why is it so important?? not many people care. they basically go along with whatever happens.

    • Thats the problem, people are just going about there business and not really paying attention. Obama is like Hitler to me, and everyone is going to just stand by and not fight back! Millions will die!! Open your eyes and do something, dont and I repeat don’t just sit back. This Healthcare Bill is a silent Killer!! Since when does the government have a right to make me have health care, and fine me if I don’t???? If we don’t fight back we will all lose!!

      • Katelyn

        You should have health care because you would probably be the first person to complain if god forbid something terrible happened to you and you were in hundreds of thousands in debt. Everyone should have health insurance, nothing is ever promised and accidents and tragedies happen.

        • Katelyn, you’re right! As you aptly stated, “Nothing is ever promised”. This is particularly true with regard to good health or health care. I agree with you that everyone should have health insurance. I just don’t believe your health insurance should be my responsibility. Further, neither good health or health insurance are “human rights”. Remember “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. These are our inalienable human rights. These are the things that we all should champion and defend. Health insurance is political fodder!

          • Michelle

            Are you kidding me? The next person’s health care is not your responsibility? What a selfish way of thinking. You have some growing to do I see. We all are responsible for each other, the sooner you understand that concept the better position you’ll arrive at to be able to ad to your world.
            Scenario: Citizen has infectious disease (does not know because he doesn’t get regular check-ups/ no insurance) He carries this deadly disease that takes years to manifest itself, but he’s spreading it like crazy… by the time it’s discovered.. YOU’RE DEAD! ..Get it now???? We should always be willing to PAY for our fellow man as it is in the best interest of the WHOLE.

        • Lyida

          Yes I think everyone should have health care… but I do not think it should be forced upon you. According to the Constitution in Article 1 section 8 clause 3 it is unconstitutional to require a citizen to purchase a good or service. Plus, the reason why a lot of people do not have health care is because they can not afford it. I can not afford health care but according to the government I make to much to get free health care. So now Obama is going to make me pay for something I can’t afford and if I don’t I have to pay a fine and/or go to jail. Now tell me how fair is that?

          • Section. 8.

            Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

            Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

            Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

      • Really? Like Hitler? You really need to grasp reality. Besides that rediculous comment, would you rather pay taxes for the millions that use government aid for health care when most have enough money to afford health care? Working in the hospital, it kills me to see that woman driving a brand new lexus, using medicaid

          • TO KIMZIE: Saying that Obama is like hitler is asinine. If you had any actual education, you would realize that Hitler intentionally attempted genocide, whereas Obama is trying to help our country. It is people like you, lying hypocrites, who hinder the progress of this country. Maybe you should attend school some time and grow up like the rest of your peers.

        • Courtney

          Thank you for the trip back to reality. Lisa: Not being able to spell is directly related to genetics. He can’t help it. A dude: Very true about using medicaid and having a new lexus. A new health care bill will allows us to begin to repair our country. Kimzie: For you to go so far as to compare Obama to Hitler shows that you have some serious issues that should be corrected. Hitler was responsible for the worst genocide in International History, and Obama is desperately trying to fix our country. Gain some maturity please.

          • ” Obama is desperatly trying to fix our country ” ha ha ha ha, Just laughed so hard I about fell out of my chair. Pretty sure he is trying to ” Sink ” our country.

          • Austin

            Courtney I’m not saying I agree that Obama is like Hitler but I do believe that people should not blindly follow their leaders… or the people or are against their leaders. You’re kidding about genetics and being able to spell right? Your computer tells you when you spell something wrong, if you spell something wrong it means you’re lazy… not poor genetics.

      • Ben Chackson

        The same reason you are required to have car insurance. I don’t want to be stuck with paying the bill for those who can’t afford or those file bankruptcy because of medical bills.

        • Ben Chackson: No one is forced to have a Car it is a Choice; car insurance is only required if you choose to buy a car.. Not the same at all. You can hurt, kill, or maim people with an automobile and insurance insures you can pay for the damage you cause in a car.

      • Kimzie that is absolutely crazy. Even Cuba has better life expectancy and infant mortality than the United States. The rest of the world is baffled that this is even being debated in America.

        Healthcare is a right, not a privilege. A unhealthy person is an unproductive worker. Makes sense for us all to chip in to look after each other’s health.

        • now that is an outrageous comment! And by the way you are responsible for you and the ones you keep near to you. No one else should be responsible for your health except you. The United States already has plenty of health care programs for people who can not afford regular insurance medi-care and medicade. This is paid for through tax withholding. Government ran clinics that charge based upon income. If we keep allowing government to tax hard working people in order to create some new program that mirrors other programs. We will have no one left to tax when businesses can produce profits because having to pay insurance, large wages and other benefits all of this will cause the economy to fall apart. Then we will be left with no choice to live by what the government allows you to have. NO FREEDOM -+- NO LIBERTY = NO LIFE

      • TO KIMZIE: I guess you don’t care that The top 5 health insurance companies reported $12 billion profits last year, Yet 2.6 million Americans lost their health insurance coverage last year for varying reasons. And that We spend 1.9 trillion on health care, which constitutes 16% of America’s gross domestic product. The health care reform bill is getting health insurance for 32 million new people who want it. This bill is saving lives, and just because you do not like democrats or Obama, you are trying to make people afraid, and saying that obama is a terrorist. Do you actually think that a president would try to destroy America? Either you think these things or you have no life and spend your day writing random things on websites for the fun of it.

      • Frustrated

        If you do not want health insurance that is your choice, than you should not be allowed to come into the hospital for treatment if you cannot pay up front. Why should others have to pay for your decision? Health care is not an entitlement.

  156. Who cares… one person isn’t really making this “change” anyway. There is a much bigger source that we will never know about. It’s up to God to deal with this and if you haven’t noticed our world is crumbling under our feet! Live your life day to day and don’t stress the small stuff. The Secret Society who is really running this world, will answer to our creator. Guess I’m not debating this topic for my English paper!

      • true that! but if i was anyone i wldnt leave it up to someone eles, no way, my word should count, its the peoples life that its all effecting so why dont we have a say so in it???

        • The ignorance on this site is appalling…People who don’t know enough to argue with fact based rebuttals resort to name calling…How can you tell me to argue with proper “grammer” when you spelled “grammar” incorrectly? I advise you get a web browser with spell check…

          The ignorance of calling someone a socialist as an insult is ludicrous to me…I’ve been to socialist countries and the system can work when properly implemented…

          I think that a good political philosophy, incorporates the best from different ideologies in an attempt to counteract the pitfalls that are associated with the ideals of the individual systems…There is something to learn from others, if you denounce someone/thing because it’s of a different view point then you’re just a puppet being used by others….Formulate your own ideals, and don’t regurgitate the things you see on television and hear from others. Cogent arguments are accepted, those of a more ignorant nature aren’t…

          • Brandon

            You mentioned socialist countries that “work”. Which ones? Did Greece “work”? Did Spain “work”? Sheesh. YOU get your facts straight.

          • Sarah Wortman

            Funny the reader only mentioned the few countries where univeral health care may not have worked out. There are scores of developed nations, like: France, Germany, Switzerland and England where the health care system is running quite well. Remember, you can not please everyone. We need to look at helping the many.

    • I agree Dave. Im neither for or against the health care reform bill, but if helps the elderly who have worked all their lives and help build this country, and children who stay sick because their parents cant afford to take them to a doctor it may be a good thing. What bothers me more than the Health Care Reform Bill is hearing on CNN that the Mexican Cartel is threatening to start killing children in Ft Hancock Texas, and the head-aches that they are causing on the Texas, and California boarders. What is America going to do about that?

      • Oh. Its not ALL about giving health care to those who are without. Its a reform of the system that’s attentions r more on wall street and other intrest than in your doctors offices and ER’s. Not saying the medical profession personally. You ever wait in line at your drug store and see the ridiculous amount of money people pay for there meds. This should not be a pay to live (in the real meaning) society.

    • Dr. Stephen D

      Take a poll of your friends or co-workers, and ask how many people they think do not have health insurance in America. The answer will, no doubt surprise and sadden you. The common response is somewhere around 40-60% of the population. This is sad because it shows just how well the rhetoric machine can influence the uninformed. It is surprising because the actual number is lower than 10%.

      Even those on the extreme left do not claim a figure anywhere near the 40-60%. The most common scary number the left likes to throw around is that 45 million Americans are without health insurance – a number that is disingenuous, to say the least. But even that number works out to only about 15% of the population.

      Of those 45 million that are said to be without health insurance, there are about 10-15 million people who make over $75,000.00 a year. These are folks who could easily purchase their own health insurance but simply choose not to. That brings the number down to 30-35 million, or around 10%.

      Of the remaining 30-35 million there are young people who feel age is on their side and are not terribly concerned about health insurance. There are children who are actually covered under Medicaid and there are those individuals who for one reason or another do not work, either through choice or through circumstances. So you can see that the number is easily less than 10% anyway.

      The rhetoric machine has been so successful that it has convinced people of a crisis where there is none. Sure it is tragic that any would be without health insurance and it would seem to make sense to come up with a way to cover that small minority. But why are we looking to place 90% of the population under socialized, government health care when they are already covered?

      Do you truly believe that a government run health care system would be better? Do you truly believe it would be free? If you do, I would suggest you take a look at a government run health care system that already exists it is called the Veterans Hospital system. Enough said.

        • Sand Man

          Wow…these are the exact points I’ve made several times before and this is the first time I’ve read this post. I am a pharmacy technician, and I know from direct experience that the huge majority of individuals DO already have health insurance and that most people are fully satisfied with their insurer, some actually love their insurance. Yeah, thats right, they love their insurance. One woman who comes in once a month & picks up 14 medications every month (she is a diabetic), and pays under $50 total… to put it in perspective, the cost of the cheapest of those medications without insurance is at the very least twice that much.
          And for the rest of the people who only pick up medication when they need it, their co-pay is usually $15-20 ….and to me this isn’t a crisis. Some Americans spend this much on a single trip to McDonald’s…maybe thats the real crisis & half the reason why people even need to worry about having insurance when they a ‘sudden’ heart attack.

          • Really? I read this and laugh. Only 30 to 35 million what do you mean only? This is sad. Let me tell you. I have insurance. Can I afford it no. Am I happy with my insurance company? Are you serious? The ppl writing in this site against this care should be ashamed. Do you personal know what it is like not to be able to get insurance due to a pre existing condition? Like someone saying “we know you need help, but sorry… die. Better luck next life” ONLY 30 to 35 million. Get a heart. Don’t believe the “facts and numbers” your being fed. These things are coming from ppl who have there best interest at heart. Big fish care nothing about the little ones! But the little fish continue to believe what they are being told. Why is this the only thing ppl focus on. Where were you when this whole was being dug? O that’s right, you were busy eating what the big fish were feeding you, voting for some one worried about his pockets not yours. Obama is not to blame for any of this. The smart individuals who voted for bush TWICE are to blame. Sad when another countries newspaper has an article titled “WHERE DID THEY FIND THE IDIOTS TO VOTE FOR THIS MAN TWICE” This is unreal! But because in 2yrs all the problems have not gone away the same “idiots” are going to vote the politicians with the shovels back in office. Hope you like the way we living it only gets worse!

      • There are not 46 million “uninsured”!
        20 Million illegal aliens are covered under Medicare Section 1011!
        Look up Section 1011.
        9 million on Medicaid on MEDICAID said they were uninsured!
        5.4 million kids ELIGIBLE for SCHIP are counted as “uninsured!
        18 million under 34 offered employer health insurance refused –counted as uninsured!
        Altogether 52.4 million people either that don’t want coverage or are covered already!!!
        Biggest LIE EVERY Told!
        Another big coverup.. $50 billion a year is sent to home countries by these same “illegal aliens”.. A 20% tax on anyone sending money that can’t produce citizenship would provide at least $10 billion!
        This $10 billion would be used to compensate providers that currently have $60 billion in “unreimbursed” expenses..WHICH BY THE WAY THEY DO RECOVER… THEY PAD AND PASS ON TO THOSE THAT PAY IN THE FORM OF HIGHER SERVICES COSTS!
        Then tax the lawyers that made $100 billion off lawsuits many frivolous health care. The fear of lawsuits costs $300 billion in defensive medicine. 20% surcharge tax on lawyers generate $20 billion… again use to pay for “unreimbursed”..
        This will not fly though!!!

      • hmmmm….I respectfully disagree with what you’re saying, here. Have you reviewed the Affordable Care Act? I had no idea what it said specifically so I went and found the website. It’s at http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/index.html. I found it helpful as I’m not a lawyer or can digest a several hundred page document.

        Anyway, in a nut shell, the act is bad for the insurance companies and good for the rest of us. Lots of protection against the ‘man’. Really it looks like a lot of restrictions for the insurance companies with additional requirements that they need to follow. Most make sense for an enlightened society that should care for those less fortunate – but that’s my opinion.

        I would strongly urge anyone who thinks they have an opinion on the Affordable Care Act to review the official website I listed above and then come back and poke holes in it.

        The only problem I had with it was I think they should have broken it up a little into separate Acts. Some of the things that will go into effect in a couple of years will be difficult to measure the success of where as other parts are really no brainers. For instance I think setting aside $15 billion for a public health fund to prevent disease and illness is a little pie-in-the-sky unless they have a good drawn out plan on how to spend the money. Maybe it’s in the formal Act – I dunno. Requiring health care companies to spend 85% of every insurance dollar on health care is a good thing for those of us who would prefer not to pay for a ceo’s limo every time we get an x-ray.

        From what I saw in the Act there’s nothing that actually screws the average American (other than how they plan on paying for it – not sure how that’s happening – I’ll have to investigate). So, with that, I’m for it. I think history will view it like when medicaid first came out. I seem to remember hearing there was quite an up roar over that back in the 60’s – of course there are political groups who would like to see that go away.

        As to what Sand Man said – you can put me on the “I hate my health care provider” along with everyone else where I work. My company started with Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Delaware. Boy was that great! Then they raised their rates in a single year that put us out of the running. Now we’re with Coventry. What a *$#[email protected] nightmare. And every year it’s gotten progressively worse. First year we had to put up with lousy customer service and having to switch doctors, etc. The next year they raised rates to the point that the employees had to pay the first $3600/plan year – and that was on top of what was already coming out of my pay check!

        I bet if you ask your customers in another year if they like their insurance provider you’ll get a different answer (if obama care is repealed this Wednesday when the Republicans retake the house and the senate) as with so many people unemployed. Eventually when they do get jobs and get health insurance what will they say when they need to pay for their high blood pressure medication, diabetic supplies, etc because they were pre-existing conditions (remember they were without coverage for awhile). You know how many people have high blood pressure or are on antidepressants? And all of a sudden you need to pay full price for your meds??? My head hurts I need to stop typing….Happy Halloween!

        • Derek Rayburn

          Count me in as one that has NEVER had good insurance and has almost always had insurance with every job I have ever had. 41 years old now and I have watched as my health care services have degraded into what is more important to wall street rather than what is important for my own health. No one in my family has ever had good insurance, most of my co-workers either opt out because the plans are terrible or they complain like me with no solution. The owner of the company I work for goes around blaming our current insurance premium increases on “Obamacare” when in fact the last 3 years we had significantly larger increases that caused us to shop and change insurance providers twice.

          When the middle class is no longer left holding the bag for the largest percentage of tax burden then maybe we can stop worrying about how some of these services are going to be payed for and start looking at the benefits and failures of them in years to come and adjust as needed to make an American solution to our health care issues.

          There are more than enough web sites with “facts” that have been twisted to support any ideology, ignorant or not. Personally out of all the republicans I know only about 1% that are actually intelligent enough to comment on political issues and not resort to name calling and topic jumping. If you watch Fox you are brainwashed and that is ok. Your judgmental God will most likely send you to hell simply for being a republican. Thankfully my God isn’t as judgmental as most. I do not care if people want to be conservative, republican, for or against a bill, but I do care if people are blindingly ignorant and simply have no desire to make our little corner of the world a little easier to live in.

          Bring on Obamacare! Repeal the wealthy tax breaks! If welfare is going to be given out, I will always vote for the politician that is going to give it to society instead of the corporations. Face it. There are going to always be hand outs, bail outs, buddy buddy deals, ear marks, bridges to no where, Republicans have proven time and time again that they have no intention of making government smaller or reducing the deficit, they simply use those as podium topics so that when they are elected they can line the pockets of their buddies with cash and I mean gobs of cash.

          The biggest surprise is how the Conservatives think their party really does anything for them at all.

      • Debbi Ellerman

        I lived in Germany for 6 years and I thought their healthcare system worked wonderfully. Dr. “D”…such a doctor! Oh, most people have the money but don’t really want the healthcare; young adults probably could get it, but they think they are invincible so who cares; the Veterans Hospitals are all for sh….See no problem here, don’t worry. It’s America and we all should be able to die on our couch in front of the TV if we want to…slop, I say! The trend in corporations these days is not to offer healthcare at retirement, along with no pensions. It just so happens our young are the future of the country and need healthcare when they get into a 4-car collision as much as anyone else. That is not the time to go…whoops, can’t afford that new liver I need cause my old one is crushed now. I don’t want to stop at all stop signs, but I have a responsibility to do that as long as I am a member of this society. That is exactly the way I look at this issue. As this goes along, maybe we will all quit feeling OK to order the super-whopper special. Maybe we will take a walk after work. That is part of this change. We all have to step up. The cost of drugs cause seniors to forego them for a choice to eat or pay rent instead. Doctors make good money and deserve to, but you could stand to take a little off the top, like the rest of us. Emergency rooms all over the country send away ambulances very often due to being full – not because there is an earthquake on every corner, but because people go there for the flu. Many of you docs are in bed with pharmaceutical companies…you’ll prescribe a drug that has no generic and hand a pen out with each prescription. The United States needs a good healthcare system, where everybody is covered…healthcare is not a luxury item. Education is not a luxury item. We are still leaders in the world, but it amazes me how this is possible. Freedom seems to cause massive selfishness and stupidity on a grand scale here in the good ole USA.
        Lastly, if humans are involved …it has to be monitored…Vet hospital or Dr. Goodneighbor’s Independent Pay-Through-The-Nose-Freedom Clinic…they all do.

      • Dr. Stephan D, i am writing a persuasive paper for my English class on weather or not the government should pay for everyone’s free health care. and to tell you the truth i just got so pumped up by your comment i got chills. YOUR AWESOME!!!!!!

    • who cares?
      I guess the 32 million that have no insurance.
      and the other 40 million that are about to lose their insurance due to high cost of premiums
      and the economy that has to pick up the slack for more & more folks that go into poverty.

      without basic health care, folks go to the ER for a cold & don’t pay. then tax payers once again pick up the slack.
      By providing an economic option for folks to receive health care this helps to keep folks able to work & have money to spend on their lives instead of going bankrupt & forced into poverty and then tax payers have to pick up the slack

  157. Both sides of the Argument

    After reading every comment on this page, I’ve drawn a conclusion. I think most anyone on here could have been, at the very least, moderately happy with a different approach to fixing our nation’s health care problems. It stands to reason that if fixing existing problems had been the mere focus, there would be much less controversy. This bill, while creating many good things, has also created more problems. Why does our government operate in such a way?

  158. First and foremost, all of you folks who are conspiracy theorists against Obama from some ridiculous rhetoric or another that you heard, need to go do your homework as soon as you’re able. Take a lesson from Bill O’Reilly, obviously a republican, who actually does his research, and recants when he’s said something ludicrous…sometimes at least. From the ‘birther’ bull to the assertations that Obama is something other than Christian in faith…those are all just propaganda like any other that a person can use to badmouth someone. The fact is, he’s American, and the faith of his house has been Christian.

    That silliness being put aside, as far as this bill goes, I am in many ways on both sides of the issue. I am still a fairly young man, 26, and I claim no political party, unless you count independent as its own. I am into the professional world and I see that my costs will go up a bit because of this bill. I haven’t had health insurance up to this point, haven’t needed it, more than likely wouldn’t need it for a while yet – most people my age simply don’t, so long as they aren’t inherently foolish. So this bill represents a necessity for me, of paying for a service I’ll not need for a while, in order for other people to use it.

    However. The simple fact of the matter is that reform was needed. If any of you who are arguing against it disagree…you haven’t been paying attention. Our health care costs have been astronomical for a while…and while I like to think that part of that is how much more quickly an American can access a health care profession for a non-emergency condition, this does not account for even most of the inefficiency of our current…well, as of now, former…system. Those of you who have had insurance that you paid for yourself…have you not noticed your rates rising steadily? And people stating that ‘the health care system’ was making a 2% profit…private health care providers saw a 14% improvement in their profit margins, during the 2009 fiscal year alone.

    Big health care companies have been playing it recently like the fat cats of real estate were two years ago- looking after their own bottom lines and interests, and hedging out any costs they could, trying to bring maximum profits by any means, more and more. HMO’s refusing care on pre-existing conditions, or even the treatment of new symptoms based on genetic or environmental ‘risk factors’ has become an epidemic.

    Though I am something of a libertarian in that I would prefer to just pay few taxes and have some minimal laws, and let people govern themselves, once companies have taken over a piece of the market and become so bloated and inefficient, something has to be done. It is to the point that countries with – in my opinion – terrible health care, like various European countries, and Canada, (where you could wait for months to see a doctor from when you make the appointment)..even those countries were more efficient in their health care system over the past several years.

    Was our bloated health care system really the one you wanted? You’re talking about tea parties and revolution over that? Surely you jest. If you are going to stand up for a cause, stand up for the real America, then stand up for something that’s working well and is an area for us to be proud of…not a bureaucracy-filled group of companies who were as focused on their bottom-line-first as any of the Enron-style companies from wall-street who helped our economy take such a shot.

    When you’re sitting there talking about the extent to which you will go to stop this ‘government takeover’, and demonizing Obama as if your faith requires it, and ignoring the simple reality of the situation, you’re helping nothing. All you’re doing is playing your part as a pawn in a political back and forth between parties in Washington. And making yourself look less trustworthy and truthful in the process, since many of the assertions batted around by the opposing council are simply and utterly false, and made up simply for inflammatory purposes.

    One side is always making the decisions, and the other side is always trying to detract and badmouth them and make them look bad, simply because they’re on the other side. To someone from the outside looking in, it’s clear that you’re just being a mouth-piece to some hate- and fear-mongering rhetoric you’ve been hearing by all those opposed. There are going to be people opposed to anything that’s done in the political eye, ever. If it’s a big deal, people will always try to say it’s the beginning of the end of the world if you do what their opposition says to do, or if you allow it to be done. Instead of listening to what someone says just because you voted for him, or because his political views on some issues happen to mirror your own, look into the facts of what was going on, and what is going on. Find out what’s actually happening.

    To those that posted the poll results further up…and those of you who were talking about majorities not being those uninsured…there were some numbers left out. 46% of people surveyed supported this bill. Only 36% said they thought it was a thoroughly good bill. 45% opposed it. But 76% of Americans surveyed agreed that health care reform was needed. There is no question that it was necessary…the extreme inefficiency was part of what had our economy bleeding.

    Personally, I wish that Obama and co had pushed harder in the earlier proceedings…the earlier health care proposals were much cleaner than this one that eventually went through, less invasive, and in my opinion, better than this one. Several of the early attempts did not include a penalty for those of us who chose not to buy health insurance, for example, and the penalties for small businesses who did not provide insurance were larger, so that more small businesses would find it financially beneficial to provide health insurance for their workers as opposed to allowing them to simply have the default plan.

    Perhaps the question that should be asked is why so many of our elected officials stonewalled these early bi-partisan drafts, and extended this battle out to the point that all of these provisions and addendums were added, as a result of all the deals that were made to get the legislation through, to ensure that it was passed. Why did so many politicians begin the fear-mongering back when it was a simple common-sense issue? Do you really believe that the very same health insurance companies who had been making record profits had nothing to do with that?

    At the end of the day, we have what we have. In my opinion, it’s far from perfect, but what we have had in place was even further from what’d be best for the country. Having to choose the lesser of two evils, however, frankly stinks.

    At least Tricare isn’t being affected. They got one part of it right, Tricare was never going to be affected by this bill. Keep up the good work out there, veterans. Even with all the constant bickering, America is still the greatest country in the world.

    • Ralph – It is so elightening to hear someone talk common sense rather than just re-
      peating words spoken by some radio or tv commentator. If we could get all the mod-
      erates and centralists in our governments to form a third party we could get the best of what we all need – some common sense approaches to the real problems facing America, we could call them the Magenta Party (Red+Blue). These extreme views and just plain lies are getting tiresome to hear and destroying the credibility of those trying to spread them. The only thing we seem to be paying our elected officials to do is to run for reelection. I think we ought to have a 2-term limit on all elected officials, with no retirement or medical benefits whatsoever – think of the $ savings here! Colleges shouldn’t even be allowed to teach Policical Science let alone offer degrees in it. With today’s electronic media we could have electronic voting on any and all issues at any given time including recall and referendum votes. The 2-party system has brought us to a screaching halt through the election system – add the new rules of Anything Goes with organizations being allowed to spend as much as they want to on ads or political positions- lies or no lies – and you will have mayhem being spread throughout America and more extremism than we have now!. Let the Ralph’s of the world speak out and loudly – we have to shout down and call all these extremists for what they are!

  159. 40-50% of GNP going to health care is totally unexceptable! We have the most expen-
    sive and lest effective health care in the world – do the math. Private industry is not doing what it should, the non-profits aren’t any better – they just spend money until they are within the % limits of remaining non-profit. Most new jobs are going to be with small businesses or the self-employed. If you do not qualify for a group rate someway, you can have your premiums increased, or be cancelled without warning.Basically if you’re against this reform, you are probably already taken care of or just don’t care about your’s or your family’s health until something goes wrong. You’re paying for these subsidies now through other means – you just don’t know it!. This will make each and everyone of us accountable for our’s and our family’s health. Most people who work for small companies have insurance through their spouses jobs, most don’t know it but if they go for a cut or problem caused by their jobs, their spouse’s insurance does not cover it – many have been surprised by this little quirk. If you’re over 55 or 56 and out of a job and out of Cobra, good luck finding something other than flipping hamburgers where you can get some insurance; if you or your spouse have pre-conditions and you have lost your insurance, good luck finding anything, let alone something you can afford. I’m really tired of all the nonsense, lying and fear tactics about what this is and is not all about, quit listening to sound bytes from people trying to sell you something, go google and look up substantial sources before you make up your mind. As for the Tea Party – just how far back do you all want to go? Let’s go back to no public transportation, no public education, no interstates, no public parks or recreation, no regulation of products or produce local or imported – want to keep going????????? Get real people – we need to go forward, but we need the best of all ideas and viewpoints – this continuation of “For us or Against Us” mentality has to go!

  160. Reading over all the comments and remarkes we just have a few things we would like to say.
    We are a christian family and beleive totally in our Father in Heaven.
    Has anyone stopped to read their bibles. this is all writen in the word of Jesus.
    If you take some time and read your bible from Matthew to Revelation you will see that all that is going on in the world today has been phrophside. you dont have to beleive what we are saying, Just take the time to read the bible, and you will see, that everything the Lord talked about over 2000 years ago, is now coming to pass. It talks about the one world order, it talks about the mark of the beast [ which is the 666] without the mark you can not buy or sell and the bible also says that this is another way for the government to control you. Now let me ask a question? Stop and think about it for a minute; the chip that they want to put in people! with out the chip you can not buy or sell, and the government will have all access to your personal life. Do you see what the bible is saying. It has all been predicted; ONE WORLD ORDER, THE CHIP [which represents the 666]. You may think we are crazy. Crazy we are not.
    This is the true word that comes from the word of God. this is all we are trying to share with you.
    one other thing i would like to talk about. The fact that I was listoning to the radio the other day. I heard something shoking. How they want to take out the part of the pledge of alegance. that states { one nation under God for which we stand} also {In God we trust} printed on money. also did you know that they did not want a Christmas tree in the white house because the first part represents Christ, Obama wants it to be called a tree of decoration not a Christmas tree. You may say you dont beleave anything I am saying about the bible, but the question is this, out of all the books in this world, why is there so much cantraversy and hate over this one book the BIBLE? I will tell you why, because it is the true inspired word of God that is why!] Thank you for your time.
    God bless America.

    • Reading your bible, do you remember where it says if you slander your father or mother, you should be put to death? “It would be easier for a Rich Man to go through the eye of a needle than to enter heaven? That ALL men are equal in the eyes of the Lord! If you truly believe those things then you must have trouble trying to reconcile everything you just said. If you truly believe the President uttered those words about the Christmas Tree, call he or write him and ask him personally, I’d bet you you will get an honest reply – maybe directly from him. After you do all that, buy a dictionary and maybe a thesaurus, you are using words you can’t spell and if like your hero, King George Bush, you probably have trouble trying to ennunciate they also. I’m not questioning your religion, I’m questioning what you are trying to attach to your beliefs and get other people to agree with based on falsehoods and innuendos and just plain lies coming from your Extreme Right Positions!

      • I concur with Dave, as it turns out these 2 people above “G & A” seem to have a very loose understanding of the bible. More specifically, they seem to have this vague notion that the US is the center of the world and is somehow forming a “world order”. Seems to me that China, India, Japan, The EU and the USA all have some fairly powerful regimes right now. It also seems to me that all these writings in revelations come to pass during a time of great destruction. And while you may think the “Haiti crisis” and Katrina were devastating enough to fall in to the category of “great destruction”, they quite simply are not. Haiti is built on a fault line… Humans are arrogant enough to think they are more powerful than nature, thus Haiti crisis. The simple fact that there are buildings there means almost nothing on the geological scale. As for Katrina… an entire city that is built below sea level? Do I even need to argue this point?… Please stop using the good book for slanderous purposes and judgmental side bars… It’s really quite annoying… and while you are at it read try reading another book, any other book will do.

  161. I am happy the bill passed. No one before could ever stop the insurance companies from barring people with pre-existing conditions from deeply needed health care. I am happy that all children now being born will have access to health care whether they are healthy or not. There is so much good in this bill that reaches down to help the middle class (which was previously excluded from help in many ways) and those who have gone through those transitional, life changing events such as job loss, medical hardships, divorce etc. I know many will not agree with me and that is fine, not here to change anyone’s mind. But I for one am proud that someone took on some of the injustices of insurance companies (capitalist dollar vrs human worth and dignity) and fought it. At least some were not bought out in America by the big lobbiests.

  162. I could give a darn about the partisan “facts” (to be read as, speculation) about what this health reform might mean for the U.S.. Here are the facts. The U.S. makes up roughly 5% of the world population and accounts for roughly 25% the worlds economy. That makes us the wealthiest country by any standard in aggregate. According to the World Heath Organization, the U.S, ranks 37th in healthcare but is the second highest in terms of per capita healthcare expenditure. That is the sad, sad status quo. This is a step in the right direction.

  163. michael Finnegan

    My name is michael and i am 15 years old. I do not support mr. obama in his actions on the health care bill because i feel this bill will a long lasting impression on my future. He is my president and i will respect him but i will not agree with him. I will keep Barrack Obama in my prayers

    • michelle a.

      i completely agreee. I respect him as my president but do not agree with the most of what he has done while he has been president. I do not agree with this bill.

    • Michael, do you currently have medical coverage? If not then you betcha this is going to have a long term effect for you! If you have coverage, just think of the millions of people that do not have coverage and what it would do to them if they had to have a major medical operation etc. that could put them into debt for years. Believe it or not a the number of bankruptcies the last few years where people have had to choos betwen keeping their homes and pay medical bills would blow your socks off! When you get ready to enter the workforce, you will probably not have the same medical benefits aa your dad or mom, that coverage will probably cost you more out of pocket, and will probably not carry over into your retirement. You need to pray for Mr. Obama that all this works the way it is supposed to, not for it to fail! Good luck!

  164. When President Obama stated that everyone satisfied with their insurance would be able to keep it, he may have been telling the truth as far as the law’s direct wording goes, but as far as the actual implementation goes, he lies.

    The reduction of the percentage of incoming money private insurance companies are allowed to be spend on overhead and profit from 35% to 15% will virtually end private health insurance in the United States. An industry that has a profit margin of 2% when 35% of income is spent on overhead and profit will not be able to survive when that is decreased to only 15% to 20%. Obama’s administration will either let them fail or take them over.

    Also, once one company in an industry opts out of providing health insurance at a cost of $10,000 per employee and chooses to put its employees on the government plan for only $2000 per employee, all the rest of the companies in that industry will have to follow suit or lose their competitiveness. Private insurance companies will soon become a memory.

    • If insurance companies would have been forced to enter into a Quality Management Program, they would have discovered so many Hidden Costs that they wouldn’t have been in this position in the first place. My best friend went into a Non-Profit insurance company as a Quality Consultant, within 6 months he uncovered so many hidden and redundent costs that his first report got he fired. The company bought out his 3 yr contract and told he not to return!

  165. wilma coy

    All i can say to anyone really concerned about the healthcare situation is we create our own destiny and though i know religion and government are a world apart you can find our next chapter by reading your bible this is the beginning of the end for all the world not just yours and it has been set in motion for a long
    , long time!!!!!!May GOD bless and love you!!!!! AMEN

  166. well…i’m almost 25 years old. I don’t have health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I work for a small business which doesn’t offer health insurance. I am not supporting this bill one bit. Why the heck not, you ask? My money (or lack thereof) is ALREADY going to people who are lazy and don’t work (or TRY to get a job) and get away with it. If there is something wrong with private insurance companies then fix it a different way. Don’t just offer the whole nation health care. What happened to working hard for your money??? Do you want to have the government taking more money out of your pocket? We are just rewarding lazy behavior …once again. And we are trying to “stimulate the economy,” right? Well we are digging an even bigger hole of debt. We’re going to HAVE TO raise taxes to pay for this. Gov’t is taking more money from us so how is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

  167. San Miguel

    Who here, believes it is morally OK to refuse care to a sick child, for any reason?
    Who here, believes it is morally OK to take health insurance premiums from people, only to cancel their insurance when they get sick?
    Who here, believes it is morally OK to refuse health care to a person, simply because they have been sick before?
    Who here, believes it is OK for a hard working honest American to lose his or her home, in order to get the health care they need to save their life?
    Who here, knows the meaning of the word, empathy?

    There, but for fortune, go you or I!

  168. The Republican plan is don’t get sick. If you get sick then die fast. There is no “WE” in the Republican platform. It is all about ME. What were those idiotic Founders thinking when they started this country with the words We The People….those damn commies!

  169. I’m a senior in high school and am confused about this bill. In the part of the bill stating that coverage will be extended to kids up to 26 years old, what are the restrictions behind that? would i have to be a full time student to receive the coverage?

    • If you are 26 or younger, you can stay on your parent’s insurance policy as in the case of minors before. The main restriction is if you are offered health insurance by an employer, meaning you have a job and they cover you.

  170. Hello, People of illussion and delusion! Slavery built America this so-called Christian Nation, that knew no God than and doesn’t know him/her now. America was built on a pack of lies and those lies sustains it. If America paid her real dues, she would be bankrupt..oh, she is morally, mentally and spiritually. Some people paid with their lives, so you could enjoy the lie you live.

    • Agaiinst The Bill

      Annie,

      Do you enjoy living in America? If yes, you shouldn’t be attacking it. If no, it may be time for you to relocate to a country that you feel loves God more than ours. Personally, the US may have it’s problems, but everybody who lives in war-torn and poverty stricken countries risk their lives everyday to come here. They obviously see something that you don’t. It’s sad that those who are privileged enough to be able to live in our nation take it for granted how much others suffer in other countries and how fortunate we are to get to live in a country to let’s people like you, me and others rant and rave against our government. In some countries, we’d be imprisoned or killed for the comments we make. Let’s learn to appreciate the liberties that our not-so perfect country gives us everyday and stop bashing the US.

    • Concerned for Our Future

      Annie, yes those people were called Patriots…the ones in the Revolution, the ones in the Civil War, the ones in WWI and WWII and Korean War, the ones in Vietnam, and the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan….they died so you can have the freedoms you so readily throw away….and to say that America was built on slavery shows the ignorance that you have for this country.

  171. Suzanne

    The amount of selfish whining in this thread is unbelievable. When I read many of these posts, I just see a bunch of money-grubbing ignorant people who are afraid of paying higher taxes to help provide insurance for people who don’t have enough money to get their own without help.

    How many of you attended a public school in this country? Who do you think paid for it? Taxpayers, that’s who. And where in our constitution or Bill of Rights was your taxpayer subsidized public education guaranteed? It wasn’t. You got it because people in this country decided to use public funds to improve the quality of life for citizens by funding and then MANDATING educational programs and institutions.

    You fail to see that this is the same issue- just a different century.

    • Agaiinst The Bill

      Suzanne,

      You are correct in that free public education is given to all who live in the US up until they finish high school I am one of those just like you who benefited from it. However, I worked and paid my way through college and I and my husband have paid over $250K in taxes since the day we began working and owning a home. I am only 35 years old. We have paid and continue to pay more than our fair share. Now, you like many others are asking us to pay more. Try putting yourself in our shoes and then maybe you’ll understand.

      • Right – -and you are doing well – you have roads, and police – and good schools, and trash pick up – – – – – – – there are people who have worked much harder than you and have far less – think of that.

    • Concerned for Our Future

      Suzanne, it is that kind of thinking that allows people to “take” money from others and redistribute it to others all in the sake of sharing the wealth. Move to Russia or Cuba if you like that type of society. What happened to working hard and enjoying the fruits of your labor and didn’t we fight a revolution to overthrow a government that was taxing us to death??? just asking….I can’t believe you said “…afraid of paying higher taxes…”

  172. You are all a bunch of whining, self-centered individuals that have no clue what so ever. Whether you are for or against this bill. I want to feel sorry for the whole lot of you but I can not.

    • Concerned for Our Future

      The Patriot Act protects Americans because lest we forget 2000 Americans died on 9/11 and there are safeguards in place to protect abuses. Will they still happen, probably, but to do nothing is suicide for our country.

  173. it does effect everyone but not all in a negative way…no matter what the government decides to do there will be ppl who benifit and those who feel they dont….there will be ppl who like it and those who dont…im sorry NOONE can please everyone…as president its his job to do what he as the president feels is best for the country as a whole …… if the government listened to every single opinion that every single person had one by one, then nothing would get done…absolutly nothing….thats why we have voting… thats why we elect congress to speak for us as a ppl .and the majority won and untill the majority changes things will stand as they are.

    • Against The Bill

      Actually Becky, this bill passed by only 7 votes. So, the majority did not win. And, I am a voter since I turned 18 years of age and I am now 35. So, I believe my opinion does count.

      • Against The Bill

        Also, Becky, if you were not in need of free health care and not on medicaid, but were actually part of the group who will be footing the “Bill,” I am sure you would be singing to a different tune.

        • I am footing it – I work – underemployeed, but looking and I vote and pay taxes. At what point is enough – enough – these companies laugh at these hard working americans while rolling in money – – the burden should not be the worker here – it is corporate greed and unethical practices.

  174. Yes, there are people who need coverage. Let them apply for a voucher to purchase insurance and I am happy to use my tax dollars to cover their premiums. Or, force insurance companies to “represent” a certain percentage of qualified participants and give them a tax break for doing so. As it is now, with the fines, fees, and taxes levied, private insurance companies will be out of business in 4 years. You won’t have a choice. Your company, when given the choice of paying a $2000 fine per employee or the cost of insurance will choose the fine – it’s cheaper! And, if you buy your own insurance, forget about it! All those fines and fees will be passed to the insured, the consumer – that’s you and guess what, you won’t be able to afford private health insurance. And, all those people who work hard everyday at those insurance companies will be unemployed – just another drain on the federal budget. Now, the gov’t will be sitting pretty. They will get your money through a premium you pay them and the $2000 fine assessed to your business – double payments, how about that!

    Ann C. says it best, http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36080

    What happened to good business practices? Why was this passed when the majority doesn’t want it? What happened to democracy? Washington just told us that they aren’t going to listen to “We the People” now what are “We the People” going to do about it? Nothing, because we have no power – we just keep blindly giving it all away!

    • This is why we need reform and that is what it is – a severe type of reform – but none the less. These insurance businesses made double digit profits last year covering less people and covering less claims – – – why – that is what i want to know?

  175. To Lewis,

    I completely agree. This ‘complete overhaul’ of the system is unnecessary and is not worth the controversy it has caused. I believe that the major issues with insurance companies can be resolved with increased regulation while making insurance companies RESPONSIBLE for doing what they say they’ll do when they accept your money. If the country’s leaders believe that the government truly needs this much control over everyday health care, we need to revert to a European/Canadian system, both of which seemingly more effective and efficient than the current one.
    I would also like to add that my Representative, (D) Nye- VA, will have my vote as long as he is on the ballot because he had the courage to vote against a bill supported by his party members on a piece of legislation he found to be unconstitutional and unfair to his constituents.

    • What about 4000 of Americas finest dead in a foreign country based upon a lie – – that seems pretty unfair – how much are you paying for that each day?? Unconstitutional – how about the patriot act and wire tapping phones of citizens and then denying it citing executive privilidege – ??

  176. Just like Medicare Part D, I find the entire thing extremely confusing and doesn’t seem like too many know what healthcare reform entails…including those who voted. Yes, I believe that reform needed to take place…but it seems to be thrown together like a tuna casserole.

  177. So, of the 32 million uninsured, I would ask how many are 25-35 year old singles who choose not to pay for insurance because they are perfectly healthy and see no reason to pay a couple hundred bucks a month for coverage? I’ll bet that if you go out in the street (or to Happy Hour at a popular bar) and ask, not many of them have insurance that their employer does not provide.
    I agree that pre-existing conditions should not prohibit people from obtaining insurance, but just how exactly does this bill make it affordable. If it works like insurance for high risk motorists, cost will still be prohibitive anyway. I see this eventually becoming “Uninsured/Underinsured” coverage in every decent medical insurance plan. Check your auto policies for how this works. Every State Motor Vehicle Department requires every registered motor vehicle to be insured for minimum liability amounts. If you have an accident with someone who has let their insurance lapse or simply does not provide enough coverage, your own insurance makes up the difference and you get to pay the premiums for it – just in case. I can picture someone, who either by genetics or by lifestyle is prone to high cost medical care, opts to buy minimum coverage, and other group and employer plans add “Underinsured” coverage to be sure that hospitals and doctors are paid whenever and whoever requires this type of procedure. Just so it will be available to their own insured clients.
    Point is that this bill is not a panacia for all of the medical care problems. There is bound to be a lot more to this story as time goes on. Ask yourself why all of the drug and health insurance companies stock values rose today. If this was not a money-maker for them, why the stock price increase? Now ask, who will pay the bill for all of this. The same taxpayers who pay for everything else.

    • These are also kids who cannot afford insurance because they are paying back student loans for college degrees for jobs that were sent over seas and now they can only find a job making minimum wage and still pay back those loans – – or just not work – – they are woking – where di they go wrong – these big businesses are greedy and don’t want to give good plans to hard working tax payers. You tell me where the problem lies?

  178. To bud…

    We should be grateful for what our country has provided for us over the years and the advances we have made in healthcare. Maybe the reason why Europe is healthier is because of the increased amounts of paid vacation time at work, relaxation for 2 hours each day in the afternoon, less fast food and processed food consumed, and greater amounts of exercise with a lower percentage of cars on the road. Maybe we should worry about what we need to do so we don’t need pills… not worry about who is going to help us get pills at a lower price.

  179. OK, we have about 40 million individuals not covered by insurance. Ten million of those could afford health insurance but won’t buy it. They want that beach house or extra car. Another 10 million are ages 18 to 25. They are invincible. No way they are going to waste their money on health insurance. Another 10 million are illegals in this country. Please tell me again why we are obligated to pay for their health insurance. Another 10 million really need it, want it, can’t get it. Let’s try and help those folks. We don’t need a complete overhaul of the current system to do that. Americans see the need for healthcare reform. They just don’t want stupid healthcare reform.

    • Louis – –
      If you ask a person if they want health insurance – they are going to say it is better to have it than not have it – but the premiums are just to expensive for so many people – people have to eat and pay $3.50 for a gallon of gas to get around too. I do agree with you though that people need to look out for others and stop thinking of themselves so much. Ther was a guy on here who works three jobs and cannot afford the deductable for coverage – – – that just isnt right – he is playing by the rules.

      • How much you wanna bet the majority of the people who “can’t afford health insurance” CAN afford Cable or satellite TV, and have several TV’s in their house? That’s at least $30 a month, probably more like $50 or $60. Likely they also CAN afford to buy retail clothes, etc. and shop for groceries at national chains. They go get their hair cut every 6 weeks for $35. Maybe they have fancy cell phones, Netflix and Blue-ray players. Maybe they drink CokaCola or Pepsi, not cheaper off brands and go out to eat at least twice a week and eat pre-prepared microwave dinners the rest of the time. America – get your priorities straight! Childhood Leukemia costs at least $250,000 to cure (in the midwest). A broken arm is about $6000. Health insurance is a NEED, TV is a WANT.

  180. Judy Hidalgo

    So many politicians use the term ”the american people” when they deride the health care reform bill and refuse to offer constructive ideas etc. The American People voted Mr. Obama in as president…the platform he ran on included the plan for health care reform….so who are they talking about?

  181. Folks, I recognize that health care reform is a contentious issue, but we need to keep these comments respectful. No personal attacks aimed at others who comment and no foul language. It won’t be tolerated, and I will edit/delete comments as necessary if they violate these rules.

  182. Hey Cheney and George W. and the rest of you angry Republicans did you ever find those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? What you did do is ruined the economy with your stupid war.

      • It is truly ignorant to believe that the war in Iraq has ruined the economy. This recession is a long time coming due to shady business practices and a government that allowed it to happen, choosing instead to allow the people to enjoy this false sense of prosperity. War, as many experts will attest to, is the greatest economic stimulant that the United States has ever known and, whether you support the war or not, I find it scary to think about what our current economic situation would be if we were at peace. Peace is good; nobody will argue with that. But one other thing you cannot responsibly argue with is the money made through war and the jobs that are created/kept as a result of one.
        This bill, while containing its fair share of long overdue, benificial reforms, also attacks American personal liberties and encroaches entirely too far into the daily lives of the taxpayers. I vote no. Reform can be accomplished without the merciless assault on the core values this country was founded on.

    • The economy was ruined by the increasing cost of energy and the failure of banks to make secure loans, not by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I believe OPEC believed that a Democrat as US President would be better for them, so they cut oil supply of failed to increase it enought to hurt our economy, making the other party more attractive to voters. Democrats in Congress resisting banking regulation and “community organizers” across the country were the root cause of banks making loans to people who had no business borrowing the amounts they were allowed and encouraged to borrow. Massive layoffs due to the increased cost of energy put even more people into the category of people with loans they couldn’t afford.

      About the “Weapons of Mass Destruction” – I have a hypothesis that may be true but not proveable. Sadaam asked his engineers to make him WMD’s. They either couldn’t, wouldn’t or didn’t know how. He killed them. Then he asked some more engineers to make him WMD’s. Engineers aren’t stupid and want to live long lives just like everyone else. They faked him out and said they were doing it. Maybe even went as far as stating they had done it. Word got around. Although none truly existed, the “intelligence” community believed the rumors too. The engineers survived. We went to war.

      • Concerned for Our Future

        Actually, he did have WMD’s but not on the scale that he wanted everyone in the region to know so he lied about WMD’s himself to boast his power in the region. And we telegraphed what were doing and he had ample amount of time to hide the WMD’s by sending it to Iran and Syria and other countries until things blew over. What you don’t see in the media is the stuff we did find, which in terms of volume was not much, but still did prove that he did have WMD’s at one point. Can anyone remember the pictures of the Kurd Village that he gased?

        • True he did have WMD’s, Old man Bush, Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were the ones who gave them to him – that’s how they knew he had them orginally. As long as he was going to use them on Iran, that would have been OK. Remember these guys also let him use his helicopters at the end of the Gulf War – that’s how he went in and slaughtered the people in the South and in the Kurdish region – after we had promised to come in and help the Kurds, and fight along side them for their independence and then backed out (just before the WMD’s were used). He had actually destroyed the rest of them, but bluffed his way through it so his enemies wouldn’t feel free to invade him. There were no WMD’s in Iraq, there was no connection to 9/11 from Iraq, there were no stationary or portable mechanisums to manufacture WMD’s – so why did we abandon the legitimate fight we had in Afganistan and deploy our forces to Iraq? Because Saddam was a bad guy and tried to kill George’s dad, oil, or just because we could?

    • I forgot to add that at least all the money spent on the wars, or most of it was and is spent in THIS country paying US citizens. I really do not think that Obama supporters have a leg to stand on anymore criticizing the previous administration for national debt creation. What is the debt now and what will it be in 10 years due directly to Obama policies.

      • Sally, you’re missing the point. The rise in the debt is to bail out the previous admin-istrations policies of “Free Markets”. Remember King George let the legislation pass from his regime to the Obama administration, because he couldn’t bring himself to admit he and the GOP platform of “Free Markets” had just taken us to the brink of financial bankrupcty – “Oh woe is me – let’s just let the market collapse and we’ll just start over again!” Remember the Presidential Campaign? “Our economy is strong and fundamentaly sound!” – the GOP candidates repeated this time and again, and then there was good ole Mit Romney – “Michigan is in a one state recession due to the Democratic Governor there”!. When it comes to paying people, I’d rather see some of our Americans get help than to be paying for “Free” health care for each and every person in Iraq.

  183. To Eddie,

    Some of us were earning a living…that is until this GREAT country of ours let the economy go to hell and everyone started getting laid off. Now we are unemployed, uninsured and uninspired by life.

  184. I just saw Alan Colmes tell Megyn Kelly he hears claims of Bad Things resulting from the bill maqde by people who cannot substantiate their claims.

    Problem is, the Bad Things are down the road and unlikely to happen in the short run.

    The cost increases will be gradual and the access crunch (esp for the expanded number on Medicaid who will have difficulty finding doctors to deliver services) and rationing won’t happen overnight.

  185. I personally see good and bad things with this bill. I don’t know which side of the bubble I sit on to tell you the truth. I have 3 jobs, have healthcare, but couldn’t afford the deductible if I had to go to the hospital. My wife is un-insured for the first time in her life because she was laid off when her employer closed the location she worked at. We looked into adding her to my insurance, but it was in no way an option after seeing what that would raise the monthly premium and deductible to.

    We are in a rough situation, because we can’t afford not to have insurance, but also can’t afford to have insurance. That’s our life…damned if we do, damned if we don’t.

    • Steve – you summed it up nicely – you have three jobs – but you could not afford the deductable if you needed too. Please re-read this!!! Shine a light on this!! If you work three jobs you should be able to pay it Steve and that is the problem with this system – it has gotten out of hand and the expense for hard working tax payers while they get richer and richer is just unfair – – – – try changing employers or getting a private plan – – is it going to cost less – no – – – this is the problem and your hands are tied – God bless you Steve. Keep working hard.

    • So, Steve, do you have cable TV? Playstation 3? or is it X-Box? Netflix? High speed internet? Cell phones and home phone? When / if my family’s healthcare costs increase to unaffordable levels, those things will be among the first to go, not my healthcare insurance! Everyone makes choices about how to spend the money they have according to their own priorities. For me, health insurance is a need, not a desire. Entertainment and toys come last. That being said, good luck with your endeavers. I hope life works out well for you, it sounds like you are really working hard. I sincerely wish life were more fair!

  186. Read these comments. Any republicans state facts and speak of the bill and its potential damage. All Democrats are quick to insult and attack the person. Unreal. If you wanted universal healthcare, move to Canada. This is the US. Its a CAPITALIST COUNTRY and should remain that way. Survival of the fittest, EARN a living, and PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH! Not a bunch of pussies who are dependent on the working people and those who made something of their lives. Obama is in office because he made himself popular to those people who knew nothing of America’s true meaning. Not because he is going to benefit the United States of America. Absolutely Ridiculous….

    • AMEN!!! I am so glad that someone finally said what the working people have been thinking. I am a full-time student who was dropped by my parent’s insurance company because I surpassed the age limit. But guess what I WENT OUT AND GOT A PART-TIME JOB so that I would have insurance! It’s really not a hard concept. Any insurance is better than no insurance at all. It’s all about what you are willing to work for.

      • as a full time student and divorced mother of three i am here to tell you that with the current economy finding a job sucks! im glad you were able to find one so quickly but in some parts of the country ie most of the country finding a job isnt easy….. when you have huge companys going out of buisness and you have ppl with 20 years of work expierience in the same job lineup as younger folks straight out of school..it makes it hard. i have medicaid for me and my kids right now and thank God i do…and as for a working person…yeah i work and i pay taxes and guess what its still not enough to pay for the cost of health care in this country and the money made isnt enough in this economy.

        • Against The Bill

          Yes, becky, and that is why you have medicaid. You should feel fortunate and blessed that people who pay more taxes than you are giving you and your kids free insurance while they have to pay for their’s. Also, our company helps us pay for part of our healthcare insurance. We couldn’t afford to pay retail for insurance either. So, the moral is, if you want to have health insurance, look for a company that offers health insurance. Now, if you’re uneducated and can’t find a job with a company that offers health insurance, then you shouldn’t complain about anything since you’re more than likely contributing the least to our economy anyways.

          • No, you should complain – if they cannot afford insurance, then they should not operate – Walmart is a huge employer and does not offer insurance for a year for its workers – they can afford it – they do want to pay it!!!!!!! Why should you have to make up for that money in taxes because these corporate giants do not want to pay? The burden is not the worker – – the burden is these industries that cut benefits to make themselves richer and then send jobs overseas for tax breaks. By all means you should complain – you are trying to do the right thing here – some people are just closed minded!!

        • Against The Bill

          Another thing, you’re lucky that taxpayers are helping you out while you get to be a “full-time” student. Boy, when I was a full-time student, I couldn’t get insurance even from medicaid. How many of us out there wish we could be full-time students and get medicaid?

          • Replying to false information:

            Becky,

            You don’t work, you haven’t worked in awhile. You had jobs, but constantly quit them. The American tax payers paid for your three kids to be born, because you didn’t have a job, or insurance to pay for them yourself. And hey, you didn’t even pay for your college. You’re going for free because the hard working, tax payers paid for it. Shouldn’t lie about these things…

    • Ok Cletus – –
      The laws in this country were meant to be changed – and the biggest companies offer terrible insurance/healthcare if any at all – look at walmart – huge employer – shitty healthcare – not because they can’t afford it – they do not want to offer it to their employees because it cuts the bottom line and goes into bonus money for CEO’s to buy that 6th house in Lake Tahoe. And if you want american pride, how about not sending american jobs over seas to someone who has never paid a tax dollar in their whole lives and on top of that the company gets a tax incentive. This GM, ENRON, and Tyco corruption is mismanagement and lack of regulation – why should your tax dollars pay for that – That is capitalism isnt it, until your tax dollars bail them out – thank you George Bush for the TARPS. You think the health insurance companies are not going down this same path if we do not do something????

      • Against The Bill

        In Reply to John,

        Many people who are working at Wal-Mart are either students in college, the elderly who need extra income in addition to their social security, and the undereducated who chose not to go to college. Now, college students who have very little income have medical clinics at the college that they can go to free of charge ( I know, I went to college) and college students who have surgeries or get hospitalized can apply for medicaid in those situations where they are low income, and the elderly have medicare and some have medicaid in addition to it. As for the underemployed, if that’s your situation, those people could actually qualify for medicaid but many times they are too embarrassed to apply. So, before you complain about how people like me are against the bill because we don’t want to pay for your health insurance out of our own pocket, you should look to see what is available and try signing up first. Then, if you don’t qualify, save your money and don’t go out a lot and buy new material things and you could have enough money to pay for your insurance. If you’re unemployed or underemployed, there are free clinics and medicaid will pay for you if you apply when you are hospitalized. Too many times, too many people want a fast buck off the backs of others who work harder than them and invested time in college and a career. Yes, I know some had high paying careers but got laid off, but that’s why you save when you make a lot of money for situations like lay-offs.

    • I want universal healthcare mandated here, in my Capitalist country. Japan is a Capitalist country, too. They have Universal Healthcare. There are ZERO people who are not covered and ZERO people who face bankruptcy due to medical bills