By a vote of 219 to 212, the House of Representatives passed the health care reform bill. While it seems everybody has an opinion about Obamacare, we thought we’d stick just to the facts, and let you decide whether the bill is good or bad for the country. So with that in mind, here are 26 facts and figures about the health care reform bill:
- Republicans: No Republicans voted for the bill
- Democrats: 34 Democrats voted against the measure
- 32 Million: The estimated number of currently uninsured Americans who will receive coverage under the bill
- $940 billion: The estimated cost of health care reform over the next 10 years
- $143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years
- $53 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from social security payroll taxes that eventually will be paid out in the form of retirement benefits.
- $70 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from premiums to be collected as part of a new government-run, long-term care program for the elderly. These premiums eventually will be paid out in the form of benefits.
- $88,000: New health insurance subsidies would be provided to families of four making up to $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level
- Pre-existing conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.
- Age 26: Insurers would be required to provide coverage for non-dependent children up to age 26
- Doughnut Hole: Under current law, Medicare stops covering drug costs after a plan and beneficiary have spent more than $2,830 on prescription drugs. It starts paying again after an individual’s out-of-pocket expenses exceed $4,550. Called the doughnut hole, it will be closed by 2020.
- 40% Tax: A 40 percent tax would be imposed on insurance companies providing “Cadillac” health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax would kick in starting in 2018.
- 3.8% Medicare Tax: A 3.8% surcharge would be imposed on investment income for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making over $250,000. This tax increase is estimated to bring in $210 billion between 2013 and 2019.
- $695 or 2.5%: The potential amount of a fine if you fail to purchase health care insurance. Starting in 2016, Individuals would be required to purchase coverage or face a fine of up to $695 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. The plan includes a hardship exemption for poorer Americans.
- 50 employees: Companies with more than 50 employees would be required to pay a fee of $2,000 per worker if the company does not provide coverage and any of that company’s workers receives federal health care subsidies. The first 30 workers would be subtracted from the payment calculation.
- Abortion: In a deal with conservative Democrats, President Obama will sign an Executive Order “that will reaffirm its consistency with longstanding restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion.” The order can be rescinded by President Obama or any future president at any time, for any reason.
- 0.9%: Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) tax rate would be increased by 0.9 percent, to 2.35 percent.
- $16 billion: The amount drug manufacturers would pay the US between 2011 and 2019.
- $47 billion: Health insurers would pay $47 billion over the same period.
- 2.9% excise tax: Medical device manufacturers would pay a 2.9 percent excise tax on the sale of any of their products beginning January 1, 2013.
- Tanning Tax: Health care reform establishes a tax of 10 percent on indoor tanning services. This would raise $2.7 billion between 2010 and 2019. As fare as we know, getting a tan outside is still free.
- $132 billion: Government payments to Medicare Advantage would be reduced by $132 billion over 10 years.
- Flexible Spending Accounts: The maximum amount you can set aside pre-tax for health care costs in a flexible spending account will be reduced from $5,000 to $2,500.
- 46%: The percentage of Americans in favor of health care reform, according to a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll.
- 45%: The percentage of Americans against the bill according to the same poll.
- 36%: The percentage of Americans who think the bill is a “good idea,” according to the same poll.
Source: Health care reform: How House members voted – CNN.com
(source: Highlights of health care compromise bill – CNN.com)
(sources: Obama Executive Order on Abortion Funding, What health care reform means for your small business – CNN Money, Checking the Math on Health Care – NYTimes.com)
(source: Obamacare wins: Now the pain begins)
(source: American Public Divided On Health Care Reform (POLL))
Now it’s your turn–what’s your opinion about the health care reform bill?
And if you are looking for individual health insurance, check out these options and get a free quote:
Published or updated November 20, 2010.
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My Questions are, What is being done for military retirees an those using tricare? What would happen to those individuals currently fighting with insurance companies for payments of coverage? Will all of them be approved instantly? What about Hospitals their rates go up faster than union auto workers. Lastly a bit off topic, Why is nothing mentioned about hospitals and their suppliers going to do about cutting costs, when you come down to it they are the core of all the costs? Thank you, Mike
There is no deficit reduction. It’s all shady accounting. This legislation collects taxes for 4 years before any benefits are put in place. That’s would get any public corporation investigated and fined (or taken over) by the same government that uses those accounting practices.
Does anyone REALLY believe those funds will still be around in 4 years?
That is why sir, it is up to Americans like you and to start a revolution and take back our country.
This is a legitimate concern; the fact that Americans are going to be taxed for laws that have not yet been put into place raises eyebrows on my behalf as well. However, as Americans, one of the things we can be proud of, is the fact that we DO still have sway when it comes to these issues.
I might suggest that an easier and more effective route of stopping this specific “pre-tax” as I guess you could call it, would be to organize republican constituents and write, email, and call your congressmen letting them know about this SPECIFIC issue. (In my experience, the flaw of many conservatives is not being specific enough in what they want, all they know is “they don’t like the way it was written” or ” there’s too much government involvement”).
This bill isn’t about providing healthcare. It IS about raising taxes and destroying private insurance.
“50 employees: Companies with more than 50 employees would be required to pay a fee of $2,000 per worker if the company does not provide coverage and any of that company’s workers receives federal health care subsidies. The first 30 workers would be subtracted from the payment calculation.”
My employer, like most employers pay better than 50% of my health insurance, in my case that is less than the fine for not providing insurance. That is going to be pretty much the standard across the country, and will force companies to drop their health coverage thereby forcing us into the government plan. Obama has said that we could keep our health insurance if we like it, but has neglected to mention how we are supposed to keep it when our insurance no longer exists because of this bill.
@David
Get back under your rock, and be sure to actually do research before you start calling out dems on what they are trying to do.
Some people are just so ignorant.
AK- who are you? Do you not see past tomorrow? Think ahead or yet think back-who is OUR president? Where did he come from? I still question his birth-certificate! He is a fraud, one who promises such great things that shall never be true. Treated like a pop star, ass-kissed by the media, and supported by American’s that don’t contribute to the U.S economy other than in a negative manner. We have to think, who has never heard the quote, “To good to be TRUE”
kevin, I fully agree with you. Hang in there. Some people only know how to call names.
But Brandy, Kevin is calling Obama a fraud….and that’s a name. I guess ignorance is bliss. Keep smiling.
Are you serious? Are you delusional? Those accusations are so far from reality it’s actually humorous. Critical thnking and doing your research might be helpful.
I’m referring to Kevin and Brandy. It’s really bizarre thinking. What is your education?
It is time to have three parties .Dem. is now Commmey TEAPARITY Rep.
Edmund you are a classic member of the tea party movement….My case in point how stupid tea party members are. Edmund wrote, “Commey??? ….Tea Parity Movement.” Nice typos…You must be one of their officiers. You actually know how to type on the computer. Must be that third graded education. So proud of you. LOL
Bob, before you start criticizing someone about errors, try proof reading your own. Your whole reply is riddled with grammar errors. It would take too long to correct you, but I am guessing you and Edmund must have been in the same third “graded” class.
So Bob, keep that hand out! Maybe Obama will have you look over the next bill.
Good One!! I remember the first time I made fun of someone.
Ha Ha, Funny You. Now you’re just coming off as stupid.
HEY! im the head of the teaparty movment and i doughnot apprittite you making fun of my freinds. i am happy to inform you that in order to be apart of us you need a high school dpolmat.
Grrrrrrrr! I hat tose darn tee parti patrits. The ar so dum.
It looks like Tricare is exempt under (D)Skelton sponsored bill that passed 403-0 HR 4887
Looks to me like childless minimum wage workers working for small biz got hosed.
(1) Insurance mandates kick in this year, subsidies not until 2014.
(2) Full time childless minimum wage workers earn too much for Medicaid.
(3) These workers will be required to buy unsubsidized insurance they cannot afford.
(4) When subsidies eventually start, these workers will have to pay approx $1,000 per year for required insurance, whether or not they can afford it.
Did I miss something?
I’m a “young pup” in the world, many would say – but I do have a few questions regarding the prospect of health care reform. First of all – Obama said he was “going to fundamentally change” America – of which, he most certainly is doing. I am a loyal American citizen – I pay my taxes, I observe the laws of the land, and I feel as if I should be able to go about my day in whatever way I so choose otherwise.
My issue is this: our current administration has usurped two major car companies of this nation – and those two companies – are no better off than they were before their governmental takeover. This shows, in only one way, that when the government gets their hands involved in any type of business – it just never really seems to work. It’s the whole “too many chiefs, not enough indians” kind of scenario. We’ve all had to go to the DMV and wait for two hours to take care of our business – usually because they’re a short staffed and over worked outfit (government run). We’ve all been to the USPS to ship off some mail – in most cases (in my experience), if there is a line of 5-10 people, you should expect a half hour wait to get your business resolved – again overworked and understaffed (government run). Just two bright shining examples of our government’s efficiency in taking care of Americans. So – here’s the question – if just these two places are an indicator of how well the government can assist its hard-working, tax paying, law-abiding, peaceful citizens – how well is government health care going to run? I guess only time will tell – but do remember that our government started the Senate Cafeteria – and it has failed MISERABLY, to say the least. So – think about that – when our government is overseeing 1/6th of our country’s economy.
Two: I shouldn’t even HAVE to bring this up, but I will – Van Jones, anybody? Honestly? Obama’s allegiance to that man should speak enough to anybody with a heartbeat of his ulterior intent. Van Jones is a Marxist, Communist, and member of the Black Panther party (or at least, was – his current affiliation is unknown to me). And all was well and good – until the truth started coming to light about him – and then he was booted from his seat of power….I don’t believe in calling those people czars as so many are these days. So that, in itself, should be shady enough. To top that off, this administration was blatantly going against the voices of its citizens when they were up in arms about the health care reform bill. The Dems couldn’t get it in a vote – so they started making backroom deals to gain support. When that didn’t work, they tried utilizing Reconciliation to pass their bill (which was unconstitutional in the way they wanted to abuse that option). And finally, when THAT didn’t work – they were talking about “deem and pass”…which was basically like saying, “we’re going to get this through, regardless if there’s support or not”. So, eventually, they got what they wanted in the form of a very vague amendment concerning abortion.
Three: I understand that Bush took control of his power too much – I was anything but a Bush supporter during his tenure in office (just to clear that up). However! His mistakes and abuse of power should not – and can not – be used to justify how this current administration is making their means to their end. I don’t understand why exactly health care is on the top of the list for these guys…perhaps the skyrocketing unemployment should be. I mean – in order to PAY for this health care bill – there must be people working to PAY FOR IT. That’s how this all works, folks. Money isn’t created from nothing (actually it is – watch Zeitgiest Addendum), and you can’t truly fund something with the lint you carry in your pocket. Here’s the deal – when a vast population of this country is out of work – the people who have jobs (most especially the small business owner) – pay the most. We pay the majority of it. When tax rates rise through the roof (which they will soon enough), the small business owner is left with a couple of options…raise the cost of goods and/or services – or…regrettably…lay off workers. So a vast number of people quickly become unemployed – well, the government has to pay unemployment SOMEHOW…so they tax companies even more. You get my point. It’s a downward cycle. First order of business SHOULD HAVE BEEN to fix the unemployment problem. It’s a lot like raising a child – if you’re young, inexperienced, and your life is in a mess – how can you possibly raise a child in a healthy way, provide for them (as a parent should), and give them the direction and knowledge they need to make the world a better place? You can’t.
In closing, I would just like the say one thing – I am 27 years old. A young person, by conventional standards. I am not a Harvard graduate. However, I see the genius of the Constitution, and the idea of what this country stood for in that respect. What is happening right now in this country is unconstitutional. It’s unfair to small business. It’s the complete and total takeover of this country – it’s started in health care now – but it will never stop there now. The politicians of this country are power-mad and thirsty for control. They have all the money that they could ever want or need – but power is the only thing that satisfies somebody who’s got everything else. The sad part is…the youth of today don’t care what’s happening right in front of them. Nobody really cares anymore. March 21st 2010 was a sad day in American history.
~ Jeremy
The auto bail out and TARPS were started under our former president, not the current. Where does the corporate greed end if the government does not step in? The top five insurance companies had combined profits of 12.6 billion dollars, yet less people had coverage, and less people were treated. This is regualtion not a government insurance plan – who is to stop these corporate giants – a slap on the hand will not do it.
who’s to stop them? companies should go out of business when they become too top heavy. laws only stop extinction of those companies as a whole temporarily. as they should. that’s how you break the corruption. citizens temporary should suffer until the PEOPLE decide how to fix it with a new solution. like a new business for example. thats the way a free market works. kinda like life. it’s more natural than getting daddy government to protect us from having to ride horses and bikes for a while. spoiled americans, including myself at times, are afraid to go backwards. regeneration of human ideas and strucure is needed. there are many good reasons the damn car companies were hurting, jobs are low, people are loosing health insurance, education system going to shit, crazy dollar inflation, etc…..but no reason greater than the peoples huge addiction to BIG GOVERNMENT AND EASY MONEY FROM BANKS. We are made to believe these people know whats best. I’m not saying these people are EVIL. Thats too ignorant, but I am saying they are not the all knowere of our reality. there insistent involvement and policies to ‘help’, ‘protect’, or ‘enforce the good’ is the hugest paradox that my mind can presently fathom. I choose to eat healthy, so I don’t need this health plan ‘enforced’ on me or to ‘help’ me. i own a gun, so i don’t need ‘protection’ from ‘terrorist’(whatever the hell that is),. If I break my leg, I go to the damn ER. Then I pay for it with my OWN money. I don’t need daddy to take money from me and to tell me where it need to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeremy- I love you lol. Very well spoken, and down to the truth of the matter. People think I speak well and get my point across, but that is truly a work of art there.
wow! i remember the first time i wrote a 5 paragraph essay. a little too much dont you think. and your so depressed that you will remeber this day forever! is as bad as 9/11 or something.
yeah, from now on its going to be called 3/21 in my book not yours though. Nice try though you.
jessy you relly cool.
I wonder how many politicians got rich over 9/11? Government regulation is a government insurance plan of sort. With any regulation there is opportunity both private and public, long and short term. Public service does not last forever for most and if you have the insiders view perhaps you can spin that into a future private interest and personal gain? Gee, I wonder if any other politician has done this?
Ok, My problem. If taxes are not raised, there will be a very large problem with inflation. This health care bill is actually going to create jobs. Also if anyone here is ignortant enough to not see what is happening now, than why are you posting? Nurses are required to work more than 40 hours a week, being required to work more than 40 hours aweek is against the law. Half the time i go to the pharmacy to get medication, i have to get a different band of med, even with insurance, and i still have to pay an obscurred amount of money for somthing that costs probably 2 dollars to make. I also would like to add, that the people who are propagading for this bill are rich Americans, and lord forbid that they have to give up some money inorder to help middle class who is actually stuck with paying for medicare now! This bill i have so much hope for, and it might get rid of some of the artifically high prices for medication. Come one to get acne cream, it costs 300 dollars for one container. Really??? 300 dollars for cream????? Open up your eyes and stop believing what you are told. Make your own assumptions, have your own beliefes and hopes. It is the same concept as the goverement forceing appartments to have price ceilings, of course the owns of that appartment are going to freak out if they see that thier greed driving prices will be forced to be reasonable. That is what Obama is doing trying to make medicare reasonable for the common American. And the ones crying wolf now, the true culpret are the insurance companies, try adding some figures in your head now and only guess how much money they make. Only reason i have insurance now is because i am going to college. And I am a young American. I am 19, and believe that this bill is for the better.
Um How did you get into a College with the grammatical errors you typed in your rant…..just asking…..
Do you mean saying things like, “Um How”, or, “..just asking..”. ;P
Private insurance in this country is aweful – that’s the point of reform. Think of those beyond yourself. The way insurance companies handle pre-existing conditions and so many other issues is just wrong. Once these people who oppose reform are put in this position they may change their tune. Of course they are opposed if life is good for them, but life is not good for the overwhelming majority of America.
“Of course they are opposed if life is good for them, but life is not good for the overwhelming majority of America.”
There are 307,006,550 (Jul 2009) people in the USA
32 Million are uninsured – I do not consider that an “overwhelming majority”
‘Life is not good’ doesn’t necessarily mean that they are uninsured. People can be struggling with their current insurance companies to get the coverage they need but aren’t getting, fighting over medical payments with insurance companies, or be forced to have lower-coverage or higher-expense insurance due to denial of coverage because of preexisting conditions.
32 million was the estimated number of people who will gain access to medical insurance, but there is an estimated 45.7 million (2007, http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/04/uninsured.epidemic.obama/) who are uninsured. 15% of the population may not be a majority, but that many people lacking good health care should not be ignored.
Define “good health care”? is it the care that the congressmen, senators, and president and his cabinet receive? or is it the care that you get WHETHER you have insurance or not at 2am in the morning and walk into an ER and get the help that you currently need? I just question why they rammed it down our throats to help 30 million people when 270 million people were okay with the health care system. How about just fixing the fraud, abuse, and waste in the current system and building on that SLOWLY and not overhauling the whole thing at once during a financial crisis in America???
And out of that 45.7 million estimat you quoted, how many of those are illegal aliens that are costing us taxpayers additional costs yearly?
32 million is an extremly overwhelming majority, or it would be if you were part of that 32 million but i guess you have it made.
Please locate the nearest dictionary and look up the word majority. You will find the term in the M section. You may learn something profound. 15% Is NEVER a majority.
Technically 15% can be a majority if you are talking about a plurality. And I think you missed his point.
In reply to Marilyn, What do you mean by “life is good for them?” My husband and I pay almost $20K in taxes each year. We live paycheck to paycheck to pay for all our bills. We have no savings except the measly amount he has in his 401K. I caregive for my father who is dying of Lou Gehrig’s Disease. I’ve been doing everything for him and putting my life on hold for 6 years. Yes, my husband makes a decent wage compared to some in our nation, however, life is not “good” for us in the terms that I am assuming you mean. My life may be better than others in that we have health insurance from my husband’s job, but let me tell you, he works 65 plus hours a week to make enough for us to live and pay our bills. I think that someone who works that hard and paid his own way to go to college and contribute positively to our economy and society deserves the health insurance he receives from his employer. We are against this bill. You want to know why? It’s because we will see our taxes go up when we already pay enough. 32 million people is 10% of our population. This number is huge. Let’s put it another way. Do you have enough money to put down 10% to buy a new home if you wanted one? Probably not. So, 10% is huge and guess what, taxpayers like my husband and I are the ones footing the bill. We already have a Medic-Aid program in every state. It’s government insurance for the poor. Congress should have just changed the income requirements so that those who don’t have insurance could qualify for it. At least, we wouldn’t have our tax dollars wasted with media blitzes from Obama and his staff. So, if you’re wondering why we DO NOT SUPPORT this bill, it’s because we are paying for it!
Sorry Marilyn,
I meant my reply to Chas, not you. I agree with YOU (not Chas) that 32 million is not an overwhelming majority.
I am sorry to hear of your situation but there are others out there with a similar situation to yours – just change the name of the disease. Many of these people were treated and then lost everything once the bills came in. This person with Lou Gherigs disease might not even qualify for coverage if he had a preexisting condition. You are already paying for people who cannot afford health insurance, but your taxes are paying for disabled veterans who cant work – your taxes pay for the social security that you are going to collect – i am 40 I wont see that money – but I want you to retire one day. The top 5 insurance companies made a profit of 12.6 billion dollars last year with less people covered, and less claims, I believe you work hard and pay taxes – why should you suffer while they use those profits to buy their next home in the Riveria???
In Reply to John,
My father is actually retired when he got this disease and he already has medicare. With Lou Gehrig’s Disease, medicaid will cover anyone whether it’s pre-existing or not if they qualify as low-income. This disease affects more older people than young. Now, for those who have pre-existing conditions, I do feel deeply for them and agree that they should not be denied. Therefore, Congress and Obama could have easily just made it into law without all the other “stuff” that requires insurance companies to not deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions and they could have also made it into law limiting the cost of drugs that pharmaceuticals could charge and the cost of hospitalizations and surgeries, but they did not. Do you know why, because the lobbyists from those organizations donated millions of money to Congressional Members and to Obama and so of course, they win while we lose. They still get to charge us hard American workers taxes to pay for the Healthcare Bill and increase our insurance premiums while they sit and laugh because in all honesty, Obama did nothing to really hurt the insurers nor pharmaceuticals.
So insurance companies should not make any profit is that what you are saying…Did you know that insurance companies profits are at 3%….wow that is a staggering number…lets talk about the USPS being 11 billion dollars in the red every year…or Amtrak (yes it is govt. controlled) needing billions of dollars every year to operate…or any other government run program that cannot keep their books in the black…
I can only assume you are in debt, and that is not a positive effect on our economy. I also believe livining in one’s mean, and in your case its not that large dream house that caused endless anxiety to you, judging by your post. If you make a decent wage, you know what you make, and its your fault for the way you live, and since the insurance compainies are fraudulent Obama was forced to act, to put regulations on them so not only healthy Americans, WHO MAKE A DECENT WAGE!, can get health insurance. Look are your own flaws, and realize that other people have the same flaws, but are less endowed not being able afford insurance.
No one should not have health care Marilyn. And those of us with health care know that our health care system is run in a criminal manner.
Chas, yes, it is wrong for people to be turned away because of pre-existing conditions. So, it that’s the case, Congress should have made a law that forces insurers to insure those with pre-existing conditions. There are some other good things, but too man bad things in this bill. Every specialist/critic has pointed out that this plan is not perfect and has problems. What they should have was take more time to fix these problems before passing this bill. But, Obama is too busy trying to make himself look good as fast as possible, so taking the time to get the bill right is on his agenda. Would you do something if you knew that it could possibly lead to disaster? My guess is a big fat NO. So, why would you support this bill?
He also has to work hard to get this bill done because he said he would get it done while he was president, and for all he knows 4 years is his presidency. Also he has to work hard to avoid the voices of Limbaugh, and other people who are yellow journalists.
This Bill = Bad.
Really ted? thats the best you can do. way to back up your statement with facts.
Well, atleast he kept it plain, simple, and straight to the point. Something the government can’t do.
If you think private insurance in this country is bad, just wait until Washington decides what services and procedures must or cannot be covered.
The bill gives the HHS Secretary a lot of power over insurance policy, and elections will now be fought over insurance issues, like which candidate supports covering more than their opponent, or who will save more money.
Get ready for more cost and tax increases, and explicit rationing sooner or later.
What do you mean just wait – you dont have a say right now – you never did – and whatever they decide to charge – you have to pay it ( might have to sell your house to pay it – but you will pay it). 30 cents of every health care dollar is spent on bonuses, lobbyist, and advertising. – you have been spending already – -try to change things on your own – you have no say – they got you and they are requesting 40 – 60 % cost increases now – can you afford that I cant?? Where does it end??
Is it better that a private insurance company (who stands to profit from NOT covering services & procedures) makes that decision? I’d have to say that I would rather it be a government entity that makes the call…they at least have an entire country of citizens to answer to. The private insurance companies have their shareholders to answer to.
to Chas,
private insurance is aweful, but healthcare is great. look around the world at health systems, and look at ours. we have the best in the world, even with those that are uninsured because they choose to be (which is roughly 10% by empirical studies) or they cannot afford it. regardless, if someone is mandated, they won’t be able to afford it anyway.
This is untrue. There are many other countries that have better healthcare than in the U.S. The folks in France have a longer life expectancy than in the U.S. The U.S. does NOT have the lowest childhood mortality – which is what a person would expect from “the best in the world”. Stop believing all the propaganda that is dished out and do some real research.
The U.S. has a large underclass most other developed countries lack. That represents a big part of our lag in life expectancy and infant mortality.
Actually, I met a woman who is from England. England has a national health insurance plan. Anyways, she told me that her mother just had surgery. I asked her how long did she have to wait for the government to approve her surgery. She told me her mother had to wait a year for the approval. Let’s see, from what this woman told me, I am guessing that her government either didn’t care that she was in pain and needed surgery right away, or it was too overwhelmed and decided she could just wait like all the others since the approval line is very very long.
So, I think we all know what we have to look forward to once we’re all placed on our government’s health care plan.
Has anyone done a comparison of wait times for private insurance companies to approve medically necessary procedures vs wait times for national/government health care? I’d be interested to see the difference, if there is any. Private insurance companies are driven by profit, and the less they pay out and the slower they pay out, the more profit they make. My thought is that whether the government or a private health care company holds the key to your health, it’s not like you can get whatever procedures you want/need unless you want to pay for them out of pocket. Some entity is going to be in charge of saying yes or no to procedures, regardless of whether it’s private health care or government health care.
And as far as I understand it, not everyone is going to be placed on government-run healthcare…there’s nothing that I can find that says you would be switched to a government plan if you already have private insurance coverage that you want to keep.
To Bud,
If you do not understand something please do not reply. As a practicing physician I will tell you directly, as would any physician worldwide our system is the envy. One cannot use life expectancy as a measure of health care effectiveness. Our country has the most heterogenous population, covering the largest landmass. (This is also one of our strengths) Countries with a very homogenous population such as Japan will always have a very low infant mortality. You cannot compare life expectancy between countries with and without gun control and blame medical care for the differences. There are far too many variables for both life expectancy and infant mortality to use this as a measure of a countries health care. Nearly every major medical advancement has its origins in the USA. Often these are tested elsewhere because of the FDA, but the origin is the USA. (ie pacemakers Medtronic, defibrillators Cordis, coronary stents Johnson and Johnson Emory University, artificial heart valves St Jude Medical, Medtronic Hall) and the list continues. Without the USA and its drug companies we would still be using penicillin for everything. Oh yea, that was us as well.
International comparisons attributing national health status to a health care system are specious. There is no correlation. What does correlate with national health status is a) employment status, b) housing status, and c) educational status. Healthcare systems attempt to repair the problems generated by the first 3 factors. World Bank, ADB, all the studies show this to be true.
In reply to the vilification of insurance companies due to their pre-existing condition treatment, if you believe that, you simply don’t understand anything about this issue. Insurance companies do not like to appear to be SOB’s by denying coverage. They are forced to in order to avoid adverse selection and financial insolvency. And before you get the rudimentary urge to rail against the fictitious “massive profits” they are reaping consider that all the “Blues” are non-profit by law.
There is a real danger in being over opinionated and under informed.
This bill is a monument to stupidity. The first tip off is the use of “mandate.” This means you didn’t do your homework or you goals are hidden. If the system were designed right no mandates would be needed.
What also strikes me as stupid is the dubious wisdom of raising taxes in an ailing economy. IQ’s seemed to have dropped precipitously in Washington.
What if there was an option, a pathway, a system that posed no new taxes for healthcare, but in fact afforded a reduction. If there were an strategy that eliminated the “pre-existing illness” dilemma but protected insurers from adverse selection, that not only solved but eliminated the employer paid insurance problem while simultaneously freed workers from slavery to their jobs to preserve their coverage. A system that gave lower income citizens a relatively greater tax break but did not disproportionately target the upper income citizens but rather treated them like everyone else. What if that system also allowed consumers choice and featured no mandates. One that actually paid providers based on real costs and assisted them in obtaining compliance with care. The same system that would remove the stigma of Medicare and Medicaid so that all providers would receive patients from this population while simultaneously saving hundreds of millions on means testing, and, most importantly, helped reverse the trend in the US of declining national health? Who could object? There are no losers.
Below six characteristics are offered of such a system that would solve many of the most basic systemic problems we now face whilst remaining congruent with core American values.
First, health services, medicines, health insurance and such should not be paid for with after tax dollars by anyone.
Sickness, like death, is a great equalizer. God makes no distinction. We all will sicken and we all will die. The notion that our government is imbued with greater powers of discernment is dubious if entertained and arrogant if claimed. It is not an area were any group should be favored to the disadvantage of others. Simply put, payment for health related expenditures with after tax dollars constitutes impediment by the government in the citizens’ struggle for life and health. This is not simply unethical but immoral and constitutes a “sickness tax.” Say you needed thirty pills a month to avoid a heart attack and the pills cost a dollar each. You have the thirty dollars but just that no more. At a 20% tax rate, you can now only 24 pills a month. Oversimplified but it somewhat illustrates the point. Extend this to the well-known conundrum of many in the US deciding whether to buy food or their medications and the point is made. Making all healthcare expenditures tax deductible would instantly increase every American’s purchasing power with the primary benefit accruing to the very ill as is proper.
Second, a basic health tax credit must be afforded every citizen sufficient to purchase a basic health plan.
It has been proposed that some sort of “basic” health plan should be offered by the government as an alternative to private health insurance plans. If this plan were actually offered and delivered by the government the basic problem of the government competing with the private markets emerges. Many would hasten to minimize this pitfall but at a most basic level, if your competitor is also the referee, it strains credulity that the game will be played fairly. Medicaid and Medicare are sterling examples of this and reiteration of the problems of ‘cost shifting’ due to unrealistic pricing is not required here. Nevertheless, the concept of a basic plan that could serve as a safety net is a sound one. But there is no reason it would have to be directly delivered by the government, in fact, it would be unrealistic to do so since the vast federal administrative system needed does not exist. Thus practicality would require the government to subcontract claims processing and adjudication to the very private insurers it intends to compete with. This precedent is already set with Medicare and Medicaid. A more direct and better way would be to require insurance carriers to offer such a package, fairly priced at a national level based on actuarial reality. The regulation of the delivery of this package would fall to the referee, the government. No conflict of interest.
Existence of such a plan is no guarantee that people will enroll in it. A frequent reflexive response is to “mandate” it. Mandates are unpalatable to most Americans and if not resisted are at least resented. If a reform is good and sound, it need not be mandated; people will choose to come. An advantageous mechanism to effect this voluntary enrollment would be through a tax credit. Tax credits have been much discussed and debated. The “magic number” of how much a credit and to who seems to be elusive. Should it be 50%, 60%, $2,500, $5,000? It is actually simple. The credit should be equal to 100% of the cost of what could be deemed “the basic plan.” This way the citizen’s choice is to buy the plan or pay the money in taxes. In both instances, the money is not in their pocket. In the current economic circumstances, this would circumvent a major obstacle. One tangential benefit is that the issue of employer provided health insurance is not only solved; it is completely removed from the table as an issue. No one would be tied to their job to secure their health insurance any longer.
More details follow on the delivery and costs of this plan. Also note this would be the same package afforded to the poor who are unable to pay (see six below)
Third, individual freedom of choice must be preserved.
One shoe size does not fit all and there may be those that want or believe they need a more extensive package. No one should have their health care needs dictated by another. People that want more should be free to do so and could elect to either take the tax credit or fully deduct the expense whichever is greater. This preserves individual choice and avoids “top down” dictating what you need. It also provides a continuing market for health insurance carriers on top of their basic plans.
In addition, since multiple carriers would be competing to deliver the basic plan, people could “vote” with their money and membership. Based on the second concept above and the fifth concept below, migrating to different plans that provide better service would hold few consequences to the individual.
Fourth, individual responsibility must also be preserved and strengthened.
If we knew nothing else about the healthcare in the United States, the fact that despite spending more and more for healthcare every year as a nation we are getting sicker indicates that our approach is wrong on a most fundamental level. As mentioned in the brief foreword, there are many determinants of health aside from healthcare. But a properly designed system could render a powerful impact on national health. This impact lies in offering choices, empowering the individual, and charging them with responsibility for their choices. One example is offered here but others such as smoking would be equally applicable.
It has been estimated that as much as one third of our national direct medical costs for all major diseases derive from the added incidence, prevalence, and morbidity associated with obesity. Diabetes, heart disease, degenerative joint disease and an ever-lengthening list of other diseases are increasing at alarming rates driven by our population’s epidemic obesity. This is a catastrophe but it is also a great opportunity to realize tremendous health savings. One powerful incentive would be to allow insurance carriers to engage in individual underwriting based on controllable, life style risk factors. Some are already doing this on a limited basis in Alabama and Indiana. Even more insurers are adjusting rates based on smoking status. You’d be free to smoke, drink, overeat, and eschew exercise but your insurance premium would reflect this. The converse is that those who attempt to be fit and healthy would have lower premiums and be relieved of cross subsidizing those consciously exercising poor judgment. The beauty of this is that the incentive is money. There is no need for education about its value. Everybody likes it. Nobody has enough.
Fifth, there shall be no discrimination against the sick.
Insurance carriers must be prohibited from individual underwriting based on preexisting disease. This practice essentially guarantees that the very people that need insurance coverage the most don’t get it. However to be equitable, insurance carriers need to protect themselves from adverse selection if they are to remain solvent and viable. In this instance, there is a better way to deal with adverse selection and that lies in establishing cross subsidy pools at state and national levels based on the costs of the basic package described previously. These have worked well elsewhere (e.g. Holland) and are nothing new. If the cost of the basic plan is based on the national average, the funds in the system would be sufficient. The competitive playing field for the insurance carriers would be leveled and their risk from adverse selection ameliorated.
Sixth, those who cannot afford basic health coverage will be assisted.
Regarding those unfortunates unable to pay for even the basic package public assistance should be provided to fill the gap. One straightforward method for determining the magnitude of this assistance is the difference between their total health tax credits and taxes paid. If their total of tax credits is more than their total tax, the difference would be made up with public funds. One other benefit of this approach is the elimination of the need for costly eligibility and means testing. Another benefit would be elimination of the “stigma” that many Medicare and Medicaid members now experience. The member’s card of those receiving assistance would be the same as everyone else’s. However, although they would be receiving monetary assistance, they would be subject to the same individual underwriting process for lifestyle as the other members. They would be free to smoke, eat to obesity, and remain sedentary provided they pay for the risk premium. There are many patients in the current Medicaid programs that do smoke, are overweight, frequently miss appointments, and ignore preventive measures. If they have to change this to retain their coverage, another opportunity for reducing national health expenditures could be realized.
Summary
These six concepts do not pretend to provide a comprehensive description of the needed reform. Issues such as EMR, malpractice reform, and others are also important but we must get the strategy for the financial mechanism and health status right for they are the core issues. This proposal addresses these core issues and it offers an option that should overcome the major objections of both factions in Congress.
1. Harbors no apparent increase in taxes for health care. Granted revenues may need to be bolstered but it shouldn’t come from healthcare. Not only is it unethical, it will bring a lot of vociferous negative feedback if any apparent increases in taxes associated with healthcare are proposed. Everyone is poised for an increase in taxes associated with healthcare. How would they react if you proposed a reduction?
2. Insurers will love it as it solves the adverse selection problem, allows them to stay in the game, and to market any “above basic” products they wish.
3. Employers will love it as they are off the hook.
4. Workers will like it as they are no longer slaves to their jobs to ensure their health coverage.
5. Lower income citizens will like it as they get a relatively greater tax break.
6. Upper income citizens will like it as they are not targeted disproportionately. They are treated the same as everyone else.
7. Consumers will like it as they have a choice and no mandates.
8. The healthy lifestyle folks will like it as they don’t have to pay for the voluntary bad behavior of others.
9. The poor lifestyle folks are not mandated to change their behavior but are given voluntary choices and the opportunity to experience the consequences of their choices.
10. Seriously ill people will find succor in the relief from “pre-existing illness” and individual underwriting burdens.
11. The “poor” will like it as there is no “stigma”. Their benefits cards will look like everyone else’s.
12. Millions will be save as no costly means testing will be required.
14. Providers will have no objection, since they will be paid based on real costs and inducing compliance with treatment in their patients will be augmented.
15. Probably most important, we can reverse the negative health trend in the US. This will lead to lower costs over time, an attractive prospect with an aging population.
Are there any losers here?
Compare this to what is being legislated now. Nuff said.
Bud, you are either naive at best or stupid at worst. There is NOT a single country that can compare to the Health Care system we have in the United States. First off those “other” countries that you cite as examples DO NOT count infant deaths in their mortality rates unless the baby dies after several days but not at birth so that skews their numbers for longer life expectancy. The U.S. does count it. You should actually do some research of your own and not just on the Huffington Post…
Even so – I have yet to run into a person who does not want healthcare – or insurance they just cant afford it – rising costs on everthing right now forces premium costs at a level that people can’t afford – - – eat this week or have health insurance this week – - I have been there and never missed work.
Are there any people of color in the tea party movement? The movement is a joke. A bunch of illiterate hillbillies. Every one of them is an idiot.
Wow, nothing like broad, sweeping generalizations.
I have a video of their national convention. I do not see any people of color there.
Bob,
Your ignorance proceeds you. The Tea party is not about race. You can sit on your hands and watch your president and dems take your freedoms one by one and rack up record deficits, then blame Bush for it. The President only suggests a budget. Take a look back at what happened as soon as your savior Obama and the dems took over the house and senate. Two years after they took over the economy tanked. I hope you have your address on the back of your belt so you know where you are when you pull your head out.
And thus the Approval rate of Congress is in the single digits…the President’s Approval rate has dropped faster than any other President in History….if he isn’t careful he will be remembered in far worse terms than Jimmy Carter was…
Read these comments. Any republicans state facts and speak of the bill and its potential damage. All Democrats are quick to insult and attack the person. Unreal. If you wanted universal healthcare, move to Canada. This is the US. Its a CAPITALIST COUNTRY and should remain that way. Survival of the fittest, EARN a living, and PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH! Not a bunch of pussies who are dependent on the working people and those who made something of their lives. Obama is in office because he made himself popular to those people who knew nothing of America’s true meaning. Not because he is going to benefit the United States of America. Absolutely Ridiculous….
AMEN!!! I am so glad that someone finally said what the working people have been thinking. I am a full-time student who was dropped by my parent’s insurance company because I surpassed the age limit. But guess what I WENT OUT AND GOT A PART-TIME JOB so that I would have insurance! It’s really not a hard concept. Any insurance is better than no insurance at all. It’s all about what you are willing to work for.
as a full time student and divorced mother of three i am here to tell you that with the current economy finding a job sucks! im glad you were able to find one so quickly but in some parts of the country ie most of the country finding a job isnt easy….. when you have huge companys going out of buisness and you have ppl with 20 years of work expierience in the same job lineup as younger folks straight out of school..it makes it hard. i have medicaid for me and my kids right now and thank God i do…and as for a working person…yeah i work and i pay taxes and guess what its still not enough to pay for the cost of health care in this country and the money made isnt enough in this economy.
Yes, becky, and that is why you have medicaid. You should feel fortunate and blessed that people who pay more taxes than you are giving you and your kids free insurance while they have to pay for their’s. Also, our company helps us pay for part of our healthcare insurance. We couldn’t afford to pay retail for insurance either. So, the moral is, if you want to have health insurance, look for a company that offers health insurance. Now, if you’re uneducated and can’t find a job with a company that offers health insurance, then you shouldn’t complain about anything since you’re more than likely contributing the least to our economy anyways.
No, you should complain – if they cannot afford insurance, then they should not operate – Walmart is a huge employer and does not offer insurance for a year for its workers – they can afford it – they do want to pay it!!!!!!! Why should you have to make up for that money in taxes because these corporate giants do not want to pay? The burden is not the worker – - the burden is these industries that cut benefits to make themselves richer and then send jobs overseas for tax breaks. By all means you should complain – you are trying to do the right thing here – some people are just closed minded!!
Another thing, you’re lucky that taxpayers are helping you out while you get to be a “full-time” student. Boy, when I was a full-time student, I couldn’t get insurance even from medicaid. How many of us out there wish we could be full-time students and get medicaid?
Becky,
You don’t work, you haven’t worked in awhile. You had jobs, but constantly quit them. The American tax payers paid for your three kids to be born, because you didn’t have a job, or insurance to pay for them yourself. And hey, you didn’t even pay for your college. You’re going for free because the hard working, tax payers paid for it. Shouldn’t lie about these things…
Ok Cletus – -
The laws in this country were meant to be changed – and the biggest companies offer terrible insurance/healthcare if any at all – look at walmart – huge employer – shitty healthcare – not because they can’t afford it – they do not want to offer it to their employees because it cuts the bottom line and goes into bonus money for CEO’s to buy that 6th house in Lake Tahoe. And if you want american pride, how about not sending american jobs over seas to someone who has never paid a tax dollar in their whole lives and on top of that the company gets a tax incentive. This GM, ENRON, and Tyco corruption is mismanagement and lack of regulation – why should your tax dollars pay for that – That is capitalism isnt it, until your tax dollars bail them out – thank you George Bush for the TARPS. You think the health insurance companies are not going down this same path if we do not do something????
In Reply to John,
Many people who are working at Wal-Mart are either students in college, the elderly who need extra income in addition to their social security, and the undereducated who chose not to go to college. Now, college students who have very little income have medical clinics at the college that they can go to free of charge ( I know, I went to college) and college students who have surgeries or get hospitalized can apply for medicaid in those situations where they are low income, and the elderly have medicare and some have medicaid in addition to it. As for the underemployed, if that’s your situation, those people could actually qualify for medicaid but many times they are too embarrassed to apply. So, before you complain about how people like me are against the bill because we don’t want to pay for your health insurance out of our own pocket, you should look to see what is available and try signing up first. Then, if you don’t qualify, save your money and don’t go out a lot and buy new material things and you could have enough money to pay for your insurance. If you’re unemployed or underemployed, there are free clinics and medicaid will pay for you if you apply when you are hospitalized. Too many times, too many people want a fast buck off the backs of others who work harder than them and invested time in college and a career. Yes, I know some had high paying careers but got laid off, but that’s why you save when you make a lot of money for situations like lay-offs.
I want universal healthcare mandated here, in my Capitalist country. Japan is a Capitalist country, too. They have Universal Healthcare. There are ZERO people who are not covered and ZERO people who face bankruptcy due to medical bills there. They are ranked within the top 10 in the world’s healthcare systems and are amongst the lowest cost per capita for that universal, all-inclusive healthcare. THIS country ranks 37th in healthcare for many reasons but one of them is because 15% of the U.S. population has no reasonable access to healthcare and risks bankruptcy due to medical bills. And this 37th ranking comes at the cost of having the second highest per capita medical expenditure in the world. 36 countries (Sweden, Germany, Canada, France, Japan, PORTUGAL!!! etc. etc. etc.) have better healthcare systems than the United States, the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world. Do you know who’s 38th? CUBA. These are facts also.
I personally see good and bad things with this bill. I don’t know which side of the bubble I sit on to tell you the truth. I have 3 jobs, have healthcare, but couldn’t afford the deductible if I had to go to the hospital. My wife is un-insured for the first time in her life because she was laid off when her employer closed the location she worked at. We looked into adding her to my insurance, but it was in no way an option after seeing what that would raise the monthly premium and deductible to.
We are in a rough situation, because we can’t afford not to have insurance, but also can’t afford to have insurance. That’s our life…damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Steve – you summed it up nicely – you have three jobs – but you could not afford the deductable if you needed too. Please re-read this!!! Shine a light on this!! If you work three jobs you should be able to pay it Steve and that is the problem with this system – it has gotten out of hand and the expense for hard working tax payers while they get richer and richer is just unfair – - – - try changing employers or getting a private plan – - is it going to cost less – no – - – this is the problem and your hands are tied – God bless you Steve. Keep working hard.
So, Steve, do you have cable TV? Playstation 3? or is it X-Box? Netflix? High speed internet? Cell phones and home phone? When / if my family’s healthcare costs increase to unaffordable levels, those things will be among the first to go, not my healthcare insurance! Everyone makes choices about how to spend the money they have according to their own priorities. For me, health insurance is a need, not a desire. Entertainment and toys come last. That being said, good luck with your endeavers. I hope life works out well for you, it sounds like you are really working hard. I sincerely wish life were more fair!
I just saw Alan Colmes tell Megyn Kelly he hears claims of Bad Things resulting from the bill maqde by people who cannot substantiate their claims.
Problem is, the Bad Things are down the road and unlikely to happen in the short run.
The cost increases will be gradual and the access crunch (esp for the expanded number on Medicaid who will have difficulty finding doctors to deliver services) and rationing won’t happen overnight.
To Eddie,
Some of us were earning a living…that is until this GREAT country of ours let the economy go to hell and everyone started getting laid off. Now we are unemployed, uninsured and uninspired by life.
Hey Cheney and George W. and the rest of you angry Republicans did you ever find those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? What you did do is ruined the economy with your stupid war.
Hey has anyone seen the current Presidents birth certificate?
It is truly ignorant to believe that the war in Iraq has ruined the economy. This recession is a long time coming due to shady business practices and a government that allowed it to happen, choosing instead to allow the people to enjoy this false sense of prosperity. War, as many experts will attest to, is the greatest economic stimulant that the United States has ever known and, whether you support the war or not, I find it scary to think about what our current economic situation would be if we were at peace. Peace is good; nobody will argue with that. But one other thing you cannot responsibly argue with is the money made through war and the jobs that are created/kept as a result of one.
This bill, while containing its fair share of long overdue, benificial reforms, also attacks American personal liberties and encroaches entirely too far into the daily lives of the taxpayers. I vote no. Reform can be accomplished without the merciless assault on the core values this country was founded on.
He has traveled over seas- – you have to have a birth certificate to get a passport – - are you serious???????
The economy was ruined by the increasing cost of energy and the failure of banks to make secure loans, not by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I believe OPEC believed that a Democrat as US President would be better for them, so they cut oil supply of failed to increase it enought to hurt our economy, making the other party more attractive to voters. Democrats in Congress resisting banking regulation and “community organizers” across the country were the root cause of banks making loans to people who had no business borrowing the amounts they were allowed and encouraged to borrow. Massive layoffs due to the increased cost of energy put even more people into the category of people with loans they couldn’t afford.
About the “Weapons of Mass Destruction” – I have a hypothesis that may be true but not proveable. Sadaam asked his engineers to make him WMD’s. They either couldn’t, wouldn’t or didn’t know how. He killed them. Then he asked some more engineers to make him WMD’s. Engineers aren’t stupid and want to live long lives just like everyone else. They faked him out and said they were doing it. Maybe even went as far as stating they had done it. Word got around. Although none truly existed, the “intelligence” community believed the rumors too. The engineers survived. We went to war.
Actually, he did have WMD’s but not on the scale that he wanted everyone in the region to know so he lied about WMD’s himself to boast his power in the region. And we telegraphed what were doing and he had ample amount of time to hide the WMD’s by sending it to Iran and Syria and other countries until things blew over. What you don’t see in the media is the stuff we did find, which in terms of volume was not much, but still did prove that he did have WMD’s at one point. Can anyone remember the pictures of the Kurd Village that he gased?
True he did have WMD’s, Old man Bush, Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were the ones who gave them to him – that’s how they knew he had them orginally. As long as he was going to use them on Iran, that would have been OK. Remember these guys also let him use his helicopters at the end of the Gulf War – that’s how he went in and slaughtered the people in the South and in the Kurdish region – after we had promised to come in and help the Kurds, and fight along side them for their independence and then backed out (just before the WMD’s were used). He had actually destroyed the rest of them, but bluffed his way through it so his enemies wouldn’t feel free to invade him. There were no WMD’s in Iraq, there was no connection to 9/11 from Iraq, there were no stationary or portable mechanisums to manufacture WMD’s – so why did we abandon the legitimate fight we had in Afganistan and deploy our forces to Iraq? Because Saddam was a bad guy and tried to kill George’s dad, oil, or just because we could?
I forgot to add that at least all the money spent on the wars, or most of it was and is spent in THIS country paying US citizens. I really do not think that Obama supporters have a leg to stand on anymore criticizing the previous administration for national debt creation. What is the debt now and what will it be in 10 years due directly to Obama policies.
Sally, you’re missing the point. The rise in the debt is to bail out the previous admin-istrations policies of “Free Markets”. Remember King George let the legislation pass from his regime to the Obama administration, because he couldn’t bring himself to admit he and the GOP platform of “Free Markets” had just taken us to the brink of financial bankrupcty – “Oh woe is me – let’s just let the market collapse and we’ll just start over again!” Remember the Presidential Campaign? “Our economy is strong and fundamentaly sound!” – the GOP candidates repeated this time and again, and then there was good ole Mit Romney – “Michigan is in a one state recession due to the Democratic Governor there”!. When it comes to paying people, I’d rather see some of our Americans get help than to be paying for “Free” health care for each and every person in Iraq.
Folks, I recognize that health care reform is a contentious issue, but we need to keep these comments respectful. No personal attacks aimed at others who comment and no foul language. It won’t be tolerated, and I will edit/delete comments as necessary if they violate these rules.
So many politicians use the term ”the american people” when they deride the health care reform bill and refuse to offer constructive ideas etc. The American People voted Mr. Obama in as president…the platform he ran on included the plan for health care reform….so who are they talking about?
OK, we have about 40 million individuals not covered by insurance. Ten million of those could afford health insurance but won’t buy it. They want that beach house or extra car. Another 10 million are ages 18 to 25. They are invincible. No way they are going to waste their money on health insurance. Another 10 million are illegals in this country. Please tell me again why we are obligated to pay for their health insurance. Another 10 million really need it, want it, can’t get it. Let’s try and help those folks. We don’t need a complete overhaul of the current system to do that. Americans see the need for healthcare reform. They just don’t want stupid healthcare reform.
Louis – -
If you ask a person if they want health insurance – they are going to say it is better to have it than not have it – but the premiums are just to expensive for so many people – people have to eat and pay $3.50 for a gallon of gas to get around too. I do agree with you though that people need to look out for others and stop thinking of themselves so much. Ther was a guy on here who works three jobs and cannot afford the deductable for coverage – - – that just isnt right – he is playing by the rules.
How much you wanna bet the majority of the people who “can’t afford health insurance” CAN afford Cable or satellite TV, and have several TV’s in their house? That’s at least $30 a month, probably more like $50 or $60. Likely they also CAN afford to buy retail clothes, etc. and shop for groceries at national chains. They go get their hair cut every 6 weeks for $35. Maybe they have fancy cell phones, Netflix and Blue-ray players. Maybe they drink CokaCola or Pepsi, not cheaper off brands and go out to eat at least twice a week and eat pre-prepared microwave dinners the rest of the time. America – get your priorities straight! Childhood Leukemia costs at least $250,000 to cure (in the midwest). A broken arm is about $6000. Health insurance is a NEED, TV is a WANT.
I’m reserving judgement until I see what the actual changes end up being. I’m worried but not jumping ship yet.
Bridget I think you spelled your name wrong. You might be a good canidate to be on the Board of the Directors for the tea party party.
To bud…
We should be grateful for what our country has provided for us over the years and the advances we have made in healthcare. Maybe the reason why Europe is healthier is because of the increased amounts of paid vacation time at work, relaxation for 2 hours each day in the afternoon, less fast food and processed food consumed, and greater amounts of exercise with a lower percentage of cars on the road. Maybe we should worry about what we need to do so we don’t need pills… not worry about who is going to help us get pills at a lower price.
Yeah – but healthy people who take care of themselves don’t ask for Cancer either and they deserve care too.
So, of the 32 million uninsured, I would ask how many are 25-35 year old singles who choose not to pay for insurance because they are perfectly healthy and see no reason to pay a couple hundred bucks a month for coverage? I’ll bet that if you go out in the street (or to Happy Hour at a popular bar) and ask, not many of them have insurance that their employer does not provide.
I agree that pre-existing conditions should not prohibit people from obtaining insurance, but just how exactly does this bill make it affordable. If it works like insurance for high risk motorists, cost will still be prohibitive anyway. I see this eventually becoming “Uninsured/Underinsured” coverage in every decent medical insurance plan. Check your auto policies for how this works. Every State Motor Vehicle Department requires every registered motor vehicle to be insured for minimum liability amounts. If you have an accident with someone who has let their insurance lapse or simply does not provide enough coverage, your own insurance makes up the difference and you get to pay the premiums for it – just in case. I can picture someone, who either by genetics or by lifestyle is prone to high cost medical care, opts to buy minimum coverage, and other group and employer plans add “Underinsured” coverage to be sure that hospitals and doctors are paid whenever and whoever requires this type of procedure. Just so it will be available to their own insured clients.
Point is that this bill is not a panacia for all of the medical care problems. There is bound to be a lot more to this story as time goes on. Ask yourself why all of the drug and health insurance companies stock values rose today. If this was not a money-maker for them, why the stock price increase? Now ask, who will pay the bill for all of this. The same taxpayers who pay for everything else.
These are also kids who cannot afford insurance because they are paying back student loans for college degrees for jobs that were sent over seas and now they can only find a job making minimum wage and still pay back those loans – - or just not work – - they are woking – where di they go wrong – these big businesses are greedy and don’t want to give good plans to hard working tax payers. You tell me where the problem lies?
Just like Medicare Part D, I find the entire thing extremely confusing and doesn’t seem like too many know what healthcare reform entails…including those who voted. Yes, I believe that reform needed to take place…but it seems to be thrown together like a tuna casserole.
To Lewis,
I completely agree. This ‘complete overhaul’ of the system is unnecessary and is not worth the controversy it has caused. I believe that the major issues with insurance companies can be resolved with increased regulation while making insurance companies RESPONSIBLE for doing what they say they’ll do when they accept your money. If the country’s leaders believe that the government truly needs this much control over everyday health care, we need to revert to a European/Canadian system, both of which seemingly more effective and efficient than the current one.
I would also like to add that my Representative, (D) Nye- VA, will have my vote as long as he is on the ballot because he had the courage to vote against a bill supported by his party members on a piece of legislation he found to be unconstitutional and unfair to his constituents.
What about 4000 of Americas finest dead in a foreign country based upon a lie – - that seems pretty unfair – how much are you paying for that each day?? Unconstitutional – how about the patriot act and wire tapping phones of citizens and then denying it citing executive privilidege – ??
Yes, there are people who need coverage. Let them apply for a voucher to purchase insurance and I am happy to use my tax dollars to cover their premiums. Or, force insurance companies to “represent” a certain percentage of qualified participants and give them a tax break for doing so. As it is now, with the fines, fees, and taxes levied, private insurance companies will be out of business in 4 years. You won’t have a choice. Your company, when given the choice of paying a $2000 fine per employee or the cost of insurance will choose the fine – it’s cheaper! And, if you buy your own insurance, forget about it! All those fines and fees will be passed to the insured, the consumer – that’s you and guess what, you won’t be able to afford private health insurance. And, all those people who work hard everyday at those insurance companies will be unemployed – just another drain on the federal budget. Now, the gov’t will be sitting pretty. They will get your money through a premium you pay them and the $2000 fine assessed to your business – double payments, how about that!
Ann C. says it best, http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36080
What happened to good business practices? Why was this passed when the majority doesn’t want it? What happened to democracy? Washington just told us that they aren’t going to listen to “We the People” now what are “We the People” going to do about it? Nothing, because we have no power – we just keep blindly giving it all away!
This is why we need reform and that is what it is – a severe type of reform – but none the less. These insurance businesses made double digit profits last year covering less people and covering less claims – - – why – that is what i want to know?
it does effect everyone but not all in a negative way…no matter what the government decides to do there will be ppl who benifit and those who feel they dont….there will be ppl who like it and those who dont…im sorry NOONE can please everyone…as president its his job to do what he as the president feels is best for the country as a whole …… if the government listened to every single opinion that every single person had one by one, then nothing would get done…absolutly nothing….thats why we have voting… thats why we elect congress to speak for us as a ppl .and the majority won and untill the majority changes things will stand as they are.
Actually Becky, this bill passed by only 7 votes. So, the majority did not win. And, I am a voter since I turned 18 years of age and I am now 35. So, I believe my opinion does count.
Also, Becky, if you were not in need of free health care and not on medicaid, but were actually part of the group who will be footing the “Bill,” I am sure you would be singing to a different tune.
I am footing it – I work – underemployeed, but looking and I vote and pay taxes. At what point is enough – enough – these companies laugh at these hard working americans while rolling in money – - the burden should not be the worker here – it is corporate greed and unethical practices.
Dear Republicans….Isn’t the Patriot Act unconstitutional? But y’all seemed to have no problem signing that Act…Love, Fellow Democrat.
The Patriot Act protects Americans because lest we forget 2000 Americans died on 9/11 and there are safeguards in place to protect abuses. Will they still happen, probably, but to do nothing is suicide for our country.
You are all a bunch of whining, self-centered individuals that have no clue what so ever. Whether you are for or against this bill. I want to feel sorry for the whole lot of you but I can not.
Thanks for this post, it’s great to have everything right there, in a single list, regarding the Health Care Reform legislation.
The amount of selfish whining in this thread is unbelievable. When I read many of these posts, I just see a bunch of money-grubbing ignorant people who are afraid of paying higher taxes to help provide insurance for people who don’t have enough money to get their own without help.
How many of you attended a public school in this country? Who do you think paid for it? Taxpayers, that’s who. And where in our constitution or Bill of Rights was your taxpayer subsidized public education guaranteed? It wasn’t. You got it because people in this country decided to use public funds to improve the quality of life for citizens by funding and then MANDATING educational programs and institutions.
You fail to see that this is the same issue- just a different century.
Suzanne,
You are correct in that free public education is given to all who live in the US up until they finish high school I am one of those just like you who benefited from it. However, I worked and paid my way through college and I and my husband have paid over $250K in taxes since the day we began working and owning a home. I am only 35 years old. We have paid and continue to pay more than our fair share. Now, you like many others are asking us to pay more. Try putting yourself in our shoes and then maybe you’ll understand.
Right – -and you are doing well – you have roads, and police – and good schools, and trash pick up – – - – - – - there are people who have worked much harder than you and have far less – think of that.
Suzanne, it is that kind of thinking that allows people to “take” money from others and redistribute it to others all in the sake of sharing the wealth. Move to Russia or Cuba if you like that type of society. What happened to working hard and enjoying the fruits of your labor and didn’t we fight a revolution to overthrow a government that was taxing us to death??? just asking….I can’t believe you said “…afraid of paying higher taxes…”
Hello, People of illussion and delusion! Slavery built America this so-called Christian Nation, that knew no God than and doesn’t know him/her now. America was built on a pack of lies and those lies sustains it. If America paid her real dues, she would be bankrupt..oh, she is morally, mentally and spiritually. Some people paid with their lives, so you could enjoy the lie you live.
Annie,
Do you enjoy living in America? If yes, you shouldn’t be attacking it. If no, it may be time for you to relocate to a country that you feel loves God more than ours. Personally, the US may have it’s problems, but everybody who lives in war-torn and poverty stricken countries risk their lives everyday to come here. They obviously see something that you don’t. It’s sad that those who are privileged enough to be able to live in our nation take it for granted how much others suffer in other countries and how fortunate we are to get to live in a country to let’s people like you, me and others rant and rave against our government. In some countries, we’d be imprisoned or killed for the comments we make. Let’s learn to appreciate the liberties that our not-so perfect country gives us everyday and stop bashing the US.
We have a freedom of religion in this country – to have a seperation of church and state – other wise we would still be living in England.
Annie, yes those people were called Patriots…the ones in the Revolution, the ones in the Civil War, the ones in WWI and WWII and Korean War, the ones in Vietnam, and the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan….they died so you can have the freedoms you so readily throw away….and to say that America was built on slavery shows the ignorance that you have for this country.
I’m a senior in high school and am confused about this bill. In the part of the bill stating that coverage will be extended to kids up to 26 years old, what are the restrictions behind that? would i have to be a full time student to receive the coverage?
If you are 26 or younger, you can stay on your parent’s insurance policy as in the case of minors before. The main restriction is if you are offered health insurance by an employer, meaning you have a job and they cover you.
Who is exempt from this bill
The Republican plan is don’t get sick. If you get sick then die fast. There is no “WE” in the Republican platform. It is all about ME. What were those idiotic Founders thinking when they started this country with the words We The People….those damn commies!
Who here, believes it is morally OK to refuse care to a sick child, for any reason?
Who here, believes it is morally OK to take health insurance premiums from people, only to cancel their insurance when they get sick?
Who here, believes it is morally OK to refuse health care to a person, simply because they have been sick before?
Who here, believes it is OK for a hard working honest American to lose his or her home, in order to get the health care they need to save their life?
Who here, knows the meaning of the word, empathy?
There, but for fortune, go you or I!
well…i’m almost 25 years old. I don’t have health insurance due to pre-existing conditions. I work for a small business which doesn’t offer health insurance. I am not supporting this bill one bit. Why the heck not, you ask? My money (or lack thereof) is ALREADY going to people who are lazy and don’t work (or TRY to get a job) and get away with it. If there is something wrong with private insurance companies then fix it a different way. Don’t just offer the whole nation health care. What happened to working hard for your money??? Do you want to have the government taking more money out of your pocket? We are just rewarding lazy behavior …once again. And we are trying to “stimulate the economy,” right? Well we are digging an even bigger hole of debt. We’re going to HAVE TO raise taxes to pay for this. Gov’t is taking more money from us so how is that supposed to stimulate the economy?
I’m a little confused. Just how is the government rewarding laziness? By offering subsidies to those making $88k/year or less?
This Bill is based on facts & figures that can best be seen and understood
by using the same miror that Alice used in Wonderland.
or the one at the county fair….lol
i dont get this whole thing?!?!…….:/
All i can say to anyone really concerned about the healthcare situation is we create our own destiny and though i know religion and government are a world apart you can find our next chapter by reading your bible this is the beginning of the end for all the world not just yours and it has been set in motion for a long
, long time!!!!!!May GOD bless and love you!!!!! AMEN
When President Obama stated that everyone satisfied with their insurance would be able to keep it, he may have been telling the truth as far as the law’s direct wording goes, but as far as the actual implementation goes, he lies.
The reduction of the percentage of incoming money private insurance companies are allowed to be spend on overhead and profit from 35% to 15% will virtually end private health insurance in the United States. An industry that has a profit margin of 2% when 35% of income is spent on overhead and profit will not be able to survive when that is decreased to only 15% to 20%. Obama’s administration will either let them fail or take them over.
Also, once one company in an industry opts out of providing health insurance at a cost of $10,000 per employee and chooses to put its employees on the government plan for only $2000 per employee, all the rest of the companies in that industry will have to follow suit or lose their competitiveness. Private insurance companies will soon become a memory.
If insurance companies would have been forced to enter into a Quality Management Program, they would have discovered so many Hidden Costs that they wouldn’t have been in this position in the first place. My best friend went into a Non-Profit insurance company as a Quality Consultant, within 6 months he uncovered so many hidden and redundent costs that his first report got he fired. The company bought out his 3 yr contract and told he not to return!
My name is michael and i am 15 years old. I do not support mr. obama in his actions on the health care bill because i feel this bill will a long lasting impression on my future. He is my president and i will respect him but i will not agree with him. I will keep Barrack Obama in my prayers
i completely agreee. I respect him as my president but do not agree with the most of what he has done while he has been president. I do not agree with this bill.
Michael, do you currently have medical coverage? If not then you betcha this is going to have a long term effect for you! If you have coverage, just think of the millions of people that do not have coverage and what it would do to them if they had to have a major medical operation etc. that could put them into debt for years. Believe it or not a the number of bankruptcies the last few years where people have had to choos betwen keeping their homes and pay medical bills would blow your socks off! When you get ready to enter the workforce, you will probably not have the same medical benefits aa your dad or mom, that coverage will probably cost you more out of pocket, and will probably not carry over into your retirement. You need to pray for Mr. Obama that all this works the way it is supposed to, not for it to fail! Good luck!
I could give a darn about the partisan “facts” (to be read as, speculation) about what this health reform might mean for the U.S.. Here are the facts. The U.S. makes up roughly 5% of the world population and accounts for roughly 25% the worlds economy. That makes us the wealthiest country by any standard in aggregate. According to the World Heath Organization, the U.S, ranks 37th in healthcare but is the second highest in terms of per capita healthcare expenditure. That is the sad, sad status quo. This is a step in the right direction.
I am happy the bill passed. No one before could ever stop the insurance companies from barring people with pre-existing conditions from deeply needed health care. I am happy that all children now being born will have access to health care whether they are healthy or not. There is so much good in this bill that reaches down to help the middle class (which was previously excluded from help in many ways) and those who have gone through those transitional, life changing events such as job loss, medical hardships, divorce etc. I know many will not agree with me and that is fine, not here to change anyone’s mind. But I for one am proud that someone took on some of the injustices of insurance companies (capitalist dollar vrs human worth and dignity) and fought it. At least some were not bought out in America by the big lobbiests.
Reading over all the comments and remarkes we just have a few things we would like to say.
We are a christian family and beleive totally in our Father in Heaven.
Has anyone stopped to read their bibles. this is all writen in the word of Jesus.
If you take some time and read your bible from Matthew to Revelation you will see that all that is going on in the world today has been phrophside. you dont have to beleive what we are saying, Just take the time to read the bible, and you will see, that everything the Lord talked about over 2000 years ago, is now coming to pass. It talks about the one world order, it talks about the mark of the beast [ which is the 666] without the mark you can not buy or sell and the bible also says that this is another way for the government to control you. Now let me ask a question? Stop and think about it for a minute; the chip that they want to put in people! with out the chip you can not buy or sell, and the government will have all access to your personal life. Do you see what the bible is saying. It has all been predicted; ONE WORLD ORDER, THE CHIP [which represents the 666]. You may think we are crazy. Crazy we are not.
This is the true word that comes from the word of God. this is all we are trying to share with you.
one other thing i would like to talk about. The fact that I was listoning to the radio the other day. I heard something shoking. How they want to take out the part of the pledge of alegance. that states { one nation under God for which we stand} also {In God we trust} printed on money. also did you know that they did not want a Christmas tree in the white house because the first part represents Christ, Obama wants it to be called a tree of decoration not a Christmas tree. You may say you dont beleave anything I am saying about the bible, but the question is this, out of all the books in this world, why is there so much cantraversy and hate over this one book the BIBLE? I will tell you why, because it is the true inspired word of God that is why!] Thank you for your time.
God bless America.
Reading your bible, do you remember where it says if you slander your father or mother, you should be put to death? “It would be easier for a Rich Man to go through the eye of a needle than to enter heaven? That ALL men are equal in the eyes of the Lord! If you truly believe those things then you must have trouble trying to reconcile everything you just said. If you truly believe the President uttered those words about the Christmas Tree, call he or write him and ask him personally, I’d bet you you will get an honest reply – maybe directly from him. After you do all that, buy a dictionary and maybe a thesaurus, you are using words you can’t spell and if like your hero, King George Bush, you probably have trouble trying to ennunciate they also. I’m not questioning your religion, I’m questioning what you are trying to attach to your beliefs and get other people to agree with based on falsehoods and innuendos and just plain lies coming from your Extreme Right Positions!
I concur with Dave, as it turns out these 2 people above “G & A” seem to have a very loose understanding of the bible. More specifically, they seem to have this vague notion that the US is the center of the world and is somehow forming a “world order”. Seems to me that China, India, Japan, The EU and the USA all have some fairly powerful regimes right now. It also seems to me that all these writings in revelations come to pass during a time of great destruction. And while you may think the “Haiti crisis” and Katrina were devastating enough to fall in to the category of “great destruction”, they quite simply are not. Haiti is built on a fault line… Humans are arrogant enough to think they are more powerful than nature, thus Haiti crisis. The simple fact that there are buildings there means almost nothing on the geological scale. As for Katrina… an entire city that is built below sea level? Do I even need to argue this point?… Please stop using the good book for slanderous purposes and judgmental side bars… It’s really quite annoying… and while you are at it read try reading another book, any other book will do.
40-50% of GNP going to health care is totally unexceptable! We have the most expen-
sive and lest effective health care in the world – do the math. Private industry is not doing what it should, the non-profits aren’t any better – they just spend money until they are within the % limits of remaining non-profit. Most new jobs are going to be with small businesses or the self-employed. If you do not qualify for a group rate someway, you can have your premiums increased, or be cancelled without warning.Basically if you’re against this reform, you are probably already taken care of or just don’t care about your’s or your family’s health until something goes wrong. You’re paying for these subsidies now through other means – you just don’t know it!. This will make each and everyone of us accountable for our’s and our family’s health. Most people who work for small companies have insurance through their spouses jobs, most don’t know it but if they go for a cut or problem caused by their jobs, their spouse’s insurance does not cover it – many have been surprised by this little quirk. If you’re over 55 or 56 and out of a job and out of Cobra, good luck finding something other than flipping hamburgers where you can get some insurance; if you or your spouse have pre-conditions and you have lost your insurance, good luck finding anything, let alone something you can afford. I’m really tired of all the nonsense, lying and fear tactics about what this is and is not all about, quit listening to sound bytes from people trying to sell you something, go google and look up substantial sources before you make up your mind. As for the Tea Party – just how far back do you all want to go? Let’s go back to no public transportation, no public education, no interstates, no public parks or recreation, no regulation of products or produce local or imported – want to keep going????????? Get real people – we need to go forward, but we need the best of all ideas and viewpoints – this continuation of “For us or Against Us” mentality has to go!
First and foremost, all of you folks who are conspiracy theorists against Obama from some ridiculous rhetoric or another that you heard, need to go do your homework as soon as you’re able. Take a lesson from Bill O’Reilly, obviously a republican, who actually does his research, and recants when he’s said something ludicrous…sometimes at least. From the ‘birther’ bull to the assertations that Obama is something other than Christian in faith…those are all just propaganda like any other that a person can use to badmouth someone. The fact is, he’s American, and the faith of his house has been Christian.
That silliness being put aside, as far as this bill goes, I am in many ways on both sides of the issue. I am still a fairly young man, 26, and I claim no political party, unless you count independent as its own. I am into the professional world and I see that my costs will go up a bit because of this bill. I haven’t had health insurance up to this point, haven’t needed it, more than likely wouldn’t need it for a while yet – most people my age simply don’t, so long as they aren’t inherently foolish. So this bill represents a necessity for me, of paying for a service I’ll not need for a while, in order for other people to use it.
However. The simple fact of the matter is that reform was needed. If any of you who are arguing against it disagree…you haven’t been paying attention. Our health care costs have been astronomical for a while…and while I like to think that part of that is how much more quickly an American can access a health care profession for a non-emergency condition, this does not account for even most of the inefficiency of our current…well, as of now, former…system. Those of you who have had insurance that you paid for yourself…have you not noticed your rates rising steadily? And people stating that ‘the health care system’ was making a 2% profit…private health care providers saw a 14% improvement in their profit margins, during the 2009 fiscal year alone.
Big health care companies have been playing it recently like the fat cats of real estate were two years ago- looking after their own bottom lines and interests, and hedging out any costs they could, trying to bring maximum profits by any means, more and more. HMO’s refusing care on pre-existing conditions, or even the treatment of new symptoms based on genetic or environmental ‘risk factors’ has become an epidemic.
Though I am something of a libertarian in that I would prefer to just pay few taxes and have some minimal laws, and let people govern themselves, once companies have taken over a piece of the market and become so bloated and inefficient, something has to be done. It is to the point that countries with – in my opinion – terrible health care, like various European countries, and Canada, (where you could wait for months to see a doctor from when you make the appointment)..even those countries were more efficient in their health care system over the past several years.
Was our bloated health care system really the one you wanted? You’re talking about tea parties and revolution over that? Surely you jest. If you are going to stand up for a cause, stand up for the real America, then stand up for something that’s working well and is an area for us to be proud of…not a bureaucracy-filled group of companies who were as focused on their bottom-line-first as any of the Enron-style companies from wall-street who helped our economy take such a shot.
When you’re sitting there talking about the extent to which you will go to stop this ‘government takeover’, and demonizing Obama as if your faith requires it, and ignoring the simple reality of the situation, you’re helping nothing. All you’re doing is playing your part as a pawn in a political back and forth between parties in Washington. And making yourself look less trustworthy and truthful in the process, since many of the assertions batted around by the opposing council are simply and utterly false, and made up simply for inflammatory purposes.
One side is always making the decisions, and the other side is always trying to detract and badmouth them and make them look bad, simply because they’re on the other side. To someone from the outside looking in, it’s clear that you’re just being a mouth-piece to some hate- and fear-mongering rhetoric you’ve been hearing by all those opposed. There are going to be people opposed to anything that’s done in the political eye, ever. If it’s a big deal, people will always try to say it’s the beginning of the end of the world if you do what their opposition says to do, or if you allow it to be done. Instead of listening to what someone says just because you voted for him, or because his political views on some issues happen to mirror your own, look into the facts of what was going on, and what is going on. Find out what’s actually happening.
To those that posted the poll results further up…and those of you who were talking about majorities not being those uninsured…there were some numbers left out. 46% of people surveyed supported this bill. Only 36% said they thought it was a thoroughly good bill. 45% opposed it. But 76% of Americans surveyed agreed that health care reform was needed. There is no question that it was necessary…the extreme inefficiency was part of what had our economy bleeding.
Personally, I wish that Obama and co had pushed harder in the earlier proceedings…the earlier health care proposals were much cleaner than this one that eventually went through, less invasive, and in my opinion, better than this one. Several of the early attempts did not include a penalty for those of us who chose not to buy health insurance, for example, and the penalties for small businesses who did not provide insurance were larger, so that more small businesses would find it financially beneficial to provide health insurance for their workers as opposed to allowing them to simply have the default plan.
Perhaps the question that should be asked is why so many of our elected officials stonewalled these early bi-partisan drafts, and extended this battle out to the point that all of these provisions and addendums were added, as a result of all the deals that were made to get the legislation through, to ensure that it was passed. Why did so many politicians begin the fear-mongering back when it was a simple common-sense issue? Do you really believe that the very same health insurance companies who had been making record profits had nothing to do with that?
At the end of the day, we have what we have. In my opinion, it’s far from perfect, but what we have had in place was even further from what’d be best for the country. Having to choose the lesser of two evils, however, frankly stinks.
At least Tricare isn’t being affected. They got one part of it right, Tricare was never going to be affected by this bill. Keep up the good work out there, veterans. Even with all the constant bickering, America is still the greatest country in the world.
Ralph – It is so elightening to hear someone talk common sense rather than just re-
peating words spoken by some radio or tv commentator. If we could get all the mod-
erates and centralists in our governments to form a third party we could get the best of what we all need – some common sense approaches to the real problems facing America, we could call them the Magenta Party (Red+Blue). These extreme views and just plain lies are getting tiresome to hear and destroying the credibility of those trying to spread them. The only thing we seem to be paying our elected officials to do is to run for reelection. I think we ought to have a 2-term limit on all elected officials, with no retirement or medical benefits whatsoever – think of the $ savings here! Colleges shouldn’t even be allowed to teach Policical Science let alone offer degrees in it. With today’s electronic media we could have electronic voting on any and all issues at any given time including recall and referendum votes. The 2-party system has brought us to a screaching halt through the election system – add the new rules of Anything Goes with organizations being allowed to spend as much as they want to on ads or political positions- lies or no lies – and you will have mayhem being spread throughout America and more extremism than we have now!. Let the Ralph’s of the world speak out and loudly – we have to shout down and call all these extremists for what they are!
After reading every comment on this page, I’ve drawn a conclusion. I think most anyone on here could have been, at the very least, moderately happy with a different approach to fixing our nation’s health care problems. It stands to reason that if fixing existing problems had been the mere focus, there would be much less controversy. This bill, while creating many good things, has also created more problems. Why does our government operate in such a way?
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